RYTM or Tempest or Tanzbar...?

So im going to buy a new drum machine next month, and im still stuck trying to decide what to buy… after opinions really… i was until the release of the RYTM about to buy a tanzbar…

yes ive used the search function on every forum i frequent and read posts about each machine… but no harm in asking for more people experiences, be they personal or via proxy…

I realise this is an elektron forum and as such their should be a strong bias towards the RYTM, especially considering it has just come out…

My thoughts…

RYTM:

  • Demos sound great, has a modern sound…
  • Sounds great out of the box…
  • inbuilt analog Compressor and distortion + digital verb and delay mean essentially mixing down in the box for live use is viable…
  • Elektron! I have the octatrack and love the workflow…
  • The sample per track too (already have the octatrack, but would be nice to free it up to be something more than a sample based drum machine)…
  • Very versatile, great range…
  • I havent demoed one yet, but will soon…
  • Alot of love for the RYTM so far…

Tanzbar:

  • Demos sound great, has a more vintage sound… but very much its own character… Manfred at MFB makes great products…
  • Considerably cheaper than the other 2 options…
  • CV integration is a nice bonus…
  • Havent had a chance to demo one, and wont as there is nowhere that distributes them in Australia… i would be ordering straight from MFB with no chance to check it out for myself…
  • Nowhere near as versatile as the other choices, but what it does it does very well…
  • Nice sequencer almost in a elektron style with parameter locks…
  • Everyone who gets it seems to love it, not much bad press about it…

Tempest:

  • Most expensive option…
  • Sounds great (terrible presets and requires more work than the other machines to create good sounds earned it a bit of a bad rep it seems)
  • Amazing pads (Linn styled)
  • Analog FX on the master…
  • 6 voice poly, but 32 parts are is so useful…
  • Have demoed like it…
  • Extremely versatile, more so than RTYM and in a whole new league to tanzbar…
  • I already have a prophet 08, so the 2 analog osc on the tempest are the same…
  • Very mixed feelings, community seems divided on their love/hate for the machine…

Ideally it would be great to own all 3… they all have their own flavours and nuances… but times being as they are and my financial situation being as it is…

So give me your thoughts… :slight_smile:

I have pondered the same question and I’m still on the fence. I’ll probably go Rytm, but i love the Tempest. Decisions desisions! The tanzbar looks sexy but build quality could be a problem. Also there’s the TR 8. I’ve demoed that and it sounds great.

I’ve owned the Tempest and Tanzbar and am currently waiting for the Rytm. I think your summary is pretty accurate. My thoughts:

Tempest
Like a lot of people on here, I didn’t really vibe with the Tempest. I like a lot about it - beautiful, lots of knobs, very flexible, great pads, sliders, etc. - but it was too much work to put together usable sounds for me. Simple things like getting a really banging kick were difficult. I’m sure it can be done, but to me, it was too much of a pain. Things never really sat right. I liked the synth voices I got out of it, but I think that’s just easier to program than really nice drum sounds.

Tanzbar
Loved the Tanzbar for the few months I had it. It sounds great, really great. Love those kicks and claps a lot, and for me it worked really well in a mix. If I had more money, I’d keep it around for the great things it does. But for the music I’m making, I need a broader sound palette for percussion, and I want it all in one box. I also want something with a more sophisticated sequencer…I’ve been spoiled by my OT. So now I’m getting the Rytm.

Volca, obviously :joy:

Well, you have the issues clearly laid out, and it sort of seems like you have come up with the msot reasons for wanting the AR. As you already have an OT and know that you love the elektron workflow, I’d say that’s the #1 factor after the basic sound.

Some + and - on the Tempest, which I own. You don’t have a noise source in the traditional sense, you have to use noise waveforms on one of the sample oscs. In practice this is not an issue. The presets suck horribly, I deleted them all but I have been very impressed with the sounds I can get out of it. the modulation matrix on the Tempest is a big plus, you can make enormously expessive instruments, albeit at the expense of programming time. And of course the engine is super-flexible so it’s actually a great synth, indeed many of us feel it’s somewhat better as a synth than as a drum machine. Put it this way - I want an AR, but I’m having a hard time deciding whether to sell my Tempest or keep it and sell the A4, which I love but have never totally bonded with, or lose both and pick up a prophet 08 (but I’d miss the big pads and the high pass filter). Space is a factor as well as money.

Some negative Tempest issues: #1 for me by a mile is that the LFOs don’t run free. The manual says they do but what they mean is ‘not synced to MIDI clock’ (they are synced by default). So the LFO retriggers every note, which means you can’t have LFO-sweeps over notes or drum hits unless you do something like sending CV from an A4 to the pedal input or apply an external effect. This is fucking stupid and I blame the prog-rock roots of DSI, because why would you make a sequence-based dance machine that didn’t let you do things like LFO filter sweeps.

Synth can’t currently play legato, if that matters to you. MIDI implementation is primitive by modern standards, and not documented at all (although it’s broadly similar to the Mopho).

Development work on new versions of the OS continue in theory but in practice have slowed to a crawl, and the developer has a habit of promising to fix stuff, making several progress reports, and then saying that it can’t happen for a long time or maybe never, and anyway it’s technically complete so leave him alone already, and/or blaming the hardware limitations because there isn’t enough memory on it. I would be extremely reluctant to ever buy another DSI product because of this. Elektron also have unfinished operating system business, but at least they don’t make promises and issue detailed progress reports only to suddenly change their minds. If you buy a Tempest buy it as is, not for its future potential because otherwise you are going to end up very very frustrated, like a lot of other people. The machine is great but it’s like the parents don’t care and it dropped out of high school before reaching its full potential.

The sequencer…it’s different from Elektron machines. A little more simple and accessible, great display and intuitive to program plus the pads are really lovely to play on. But it’s also very linear and not really interactive like the Elektron ones. I rarely use it, although it’s nice that it does 8 bars and up to 32nd notes. It’s fine if you know what you want and want to lay out song sections in a conventional fashion, but I’m addicted to he variable track/pattern lengths on the Elektron sequencer, being able to slide patterns back and forth in time, microtiming, p-locks.

Onboard effects on the Tempest are pretty simple, 1 knob each for distortion and compression. Nice in theory but in practice I almost never use them, too crude to really shape your sound and they feel a bit gimmicky because they go across the whole mix The MIDI-note-repeat delay thing works and you could leverage it for weird and interesting effects with careful modulation matrix programming, but it isn’t all that musical to be honest. You need external effects with this machine which may mean additional cost, although since you have an Octatrack you could do quite a bit with the onboard effects on that. I think the effects on the AR are one of the biggest draws, although they apparently don’t work on external sources and you only get delay and reverb, having individual FX levels for each track and fully programmable FX parameters locked into the sequencer is a huge deal. The delay and reverb in the Analog Four are fantastic and the AR seems to have the same system, very musical and flexible.

A few things the Tempest does better as well. Although it’s slower to program, you can get really deep and expressive sounds from it since it’s basically a 4 oscillator synth with two sub-oscillators. The extensive modulation capabilities make it sound very ‘alive’ and distinct. I have no problem getting almost any sound I want from it, although I haven’t quite managed to emulate the famous 909 open high hat sound. You can totally get solid kicks from it despite what some people say, but it takes a little work. The user interface is not perfect but it’s very very good and and it’s very pleasant to use for hours at a time. I think the physical and user interface design is a bit better than Elektron stuff to be honest.

You can dial in a wide variety of user scales when playing synth sounds and this is really wonderful. I wish the OT and other Elektron gear did this instead of just offering major and minor. Great for jamming. The pads and touch strips are likewise great, really inviting and responsive and some of the best controls I’ve used on any gear. The knobs are a little lightweight and plastic by contrast, very much for programming rather than performance. 32 sounds I’m not so sure about…they’re in 2 pages of 16 so realistically you’ll use the top 16 90% of the time, and if I understand the AR manual correctly you can access any of the 128 sounds in the project by p-locking, it’s just not quite as accessible. I rarely use 16 drums in a project but it’s great for setting up drums plus bass sounds plus a bunch of textural stuff.

In sum, a more enjoyable synth than the A4 in many respects, but IMHO an inferior drum machine to the AR.

It sounds good, it has that side chain which is cool. But it feels like a toy next to the Rythm and the others mentioned. I have played with is as a layering tool under the Rythm but on it own you would not be satisfied for long if the aforementioned list were your top hits…

Thankyou for the indepth response… much appreciated… great post Anigbrowl… (y)

Yeah the tempest does strike me as a synth pretending to be a drum machine in many ways, and to my eyes and ears therin lies its strength and weakness… Where as the Tanzbar and RYTM very much feel like and act like drum machines…

Incomplete OS is worry tbh with the Tempest, but i also have my doubts about elektron in that sense too, the octatrack still in ways feels like an incomplete machine, and well below its full potential… with so many other products in front of it for elektron you must wonder if it will ever get all the additions and fine tuning it deserves… i understand its more profitable for a company to make new machines than spend years and years working on old ones…

I think the Tempest is at the bottom of this short list for me atm… That said i think its a great machine… and still being considered… Due to its depth and versatility…

Looking at the signal flow diagram for RYTM yeah the ext inputs only go through the master section, which gives drive and comp…

i can vouch for what a great synth the prophet 08 is if you are ever considering one… has a definite ‘curtis’ sound, which isnt for everyone… but in its price range for a modern analog poly its unbeatable imo… multi timbral, mod options coming out the wazoo… I really love my prophet and the more time i spend with it the more i really think its a great synth…

Yeah it would be great if the elektron trigs didnt have to be chromatic… a choice of scales or user defined would be really cool…

Thanks again…

Yeah i understand what you mean… when i demoed the tempest when i first came out i jumped on the MachineDrum straight after it, to give my self something to juxtapose it against…

I found i was instantly dialing sounds on the MD and then jamming, playing with the tempest was a slower and more deliberate process…

Yeah the Tanzbar, although i really love its sound from what i have heard, may get beaten on the strength of the RYTMs flexibility… i would still really like one haha… i have been just about to order one on a couple of occasions and ended up using that money on other kit… most recently when the opportunity came up to grab a pulse 2 and a moogerfooger MF108 at a really good price…

And like you say the Tanzbar sequencer doesnt seem as great compared to the elektron sequencers, which i am a big fan of as an OT owner also…

Thanks for the response… :slight_smile:

Yes i think one of the problems with MFB is the build… the sounds are generally great… and i understand with a small manufacturing process they must be trying to keep costs down in anyway they can…

Passing on the TR8… i feel roland dropped the ball on that one a little… analog has made a big resurgence, and as a result we are being flooded with good modern analogs, just look at my drum machine dilemma here, spoilt for choice… I understand the attitude they have expressed publicly, they dont want to do remakes, they want to move forward… but then why make an emulation? any clone or emulation will never sound bang on, so in light of whats its trying to achieve it will never be as good as the real thing… one of the reasons im narrowed my decision to the three machines is i think they are trying to be themselves (tanzbar does get labelled as an attempt at a TR styled machine, but it has its own sound i definitely think)… that said im sure they will sell a ton of them, so fairplay,… i think they would have sold alot more if they reissued the 808 and 909 though, like korg did with the MS20 mini (and ARP 2600 they have in the works)…

but thats all for another topic… thanks for the reply im in the same boat it seems, undecided, leaning towards the RYTM…

Yea it’s unfortunate that build quality has to come into it with MFB but it is gonna be a big factor.

I’ve been considering the MFB Dominion 1 vrs Sub 37, and the quality may be something that concerns me, more so because it’s such a small company too, I’ll probly wait for feedback on the Dominion 1 before making any decision there.

I went for Rytm over any of the others, tho the Tanzabar sounds great from demos and for the price its a reasonable contender.

By the sounds of it, if I ever were going to consider Tempest it would be as a synth not a drum machine.

Passing on the TR8… i feel roland dropped the ball on that one a little… analog has made a big resurgence, and as a result we are being flooded with good modern analogs, just look at my drum machine dilemma here, spoilt for choice… I understand the attitude they have expressed publicly, they dont want to do remakes, they want to move forward… but then why make an emulation? any clone or emulation will never sound bang on, so in light of whats its trying to achieve it will never be as good as the real thing…

Yeah. I was also considering the TR8 but the fact that it’s not analog and it has no brain (as in the ability to basically save anything) makes it rather useless. Imagine you created this one awesome kick and wife comes in to fiddle a bit withe the knobs. Actually, that’s kinda cool :slight_smile:

FWIW, I didn’t have any issues with the build quality of the Tanzbar. It’s definitely not as beautiful and tank-like as either the Tempest or Rytm, but it didn’t feel flimsy to me. Some others disagree

I am not a fan of the Tempest.

I bought one and had it for 9 months. I spent most of my production time trying to coax out the mythical deep sounds that lie within the Tempest’s ‘potential’.

I never found them. I tried everyone’s best patches, I did drum synthesis research. I found some ok sounds, some pretty good sounds, but on the whole the Tempest’s sound never worked for me, especially the analogue side.

I don’t think the voice architecture was designed around ‘drum synthesis’, it was merely taken because it was convenient for DSI to do so - ie the evolver voice architecture. I remember someone at DSI suggesting that the Mopho/Tetra/Prophet08 may have been a better choice, at least for the analogue voices.

I don’t like poly synth side of the Tempest either, its sound doesn’t do it for me at all compared to most poly analogue synths. Its IMO, but we all like some synths more than others.

When I sold the Tempest my production process was so much better and it was a great relief to get rid of it.

Analog Rytm: So far this sounds like a great drum machine in the right hands, but Im yet to test one - ill be waiting a few more weeks. I have a feeling its analogue drums will be good, sometimes really great, but not consistently supreme compared to all other analogue drums (808, 909 being the big ones). But they should be good enough, and the combination of Elektron sequencer, samples, overdrive, filters and separate outs should make this a power house drum machine - kind of what many people were hoping the Tempest was going to be when it was announced.

It was definitely not designed around drum synthesis - the notion of an ‘analog MPC’ was a pretty good one but it was clearly not thought through all the way. The things I like about it as a synth are things the A4 is weak at, like the UI and fairly instant-gratification bass (the A4 oscillators don’t really deliver the bottom end for me).

As far as the AR is concerned, another Elektronaut put up a bunch of demos on SoundCloud yesterday that really delivered, just taking the basic sounds and pushing them to extremes: 6x AR demos

As you say the combination of numerous simple things done well seems to be where the AR wins out. Now if I could just work out the right synths to go with…

Incidentally I notice on the DSI forum that Dave Smith sad back in late March during an AMA ‘interview’ on Reddit that there was a new operating system on the way with new manual, new presets, and new features, within ‘2-3 months’ so since we are in June that would seem to be this month or maybe July. I certainly look forward to seeing what is on the way.

I had a Tempest for about 2 years.
I really love the way it sounds.
However for drums, to get great sounds I felt it needed to run at least 3 voices separately into a mixer, eq them, add some minor effects.
Without a mixer I would struggle liking the kicks and snares as much.
The Tempest is fun to play, the beat wide filter with the ability to re-hit the pad and set things back to their original settings is great fun.
Sliders are neat, but I found them only working good if you expected abrupt unexpected changes. Not good for detail. Also recording slider data has a few quirks. You want to record slider data to mod paths but you cant, only sounds.
I just didn’t care for the sound of the distortion ever, and I love distortion.
Rarely used the compression. Usually for bass sounds if I did.
The way the mixer works with the feedback, is really odd and confusing.
I was satisfied with some of the samples, and I never really desired sample support when I got Tempest, but over time you hear some of those samples as you scroll by them and think, “why did they choose that goofy sample.”
There’s quite a few good samples in there, but I would say more bad than good.

My number one struggle with Tempest is the 16 beat limit.
In Elektron land it would be 16 patterns, nothing more.
Tempest has 32 sounds per beat, but it has an 8 events limit.
So the idea that you have 32 sounds and could get about 4 patterns per beat is crippled by the 8 event limit.
I started using the OT to sequence Tempest.
Although that’s a lot of fun it has it’s drawbacks.
Roll is useless if the sequence it not in Tempest.
You cant externally sequence Tempest sliders, (possibly in an upcoming OS).
If you send sequenced midi notes to change beats on the Tempest (sort of like program change), Tempest will drop the first note. This has been a long standing bug.

As said before Tempest shines as a poly synth, and I found that programming those kinds of sounds were a lot of fun and intuitive.
The variety and amount of modulations is deep.
I did find endless amounts of tweaking drum sounds. Even though I think the drums sounded great, I was still searching a bit.

I sold my Tempest, and my AR has shipped.
I also sold a bunch of other gear I was using to get the desired result with Tempest. I need a portable rig and things were getting out of control.
I would love to have kept it, but it’s an expensive piece of gear, and I’d be happy with a poly 800 ex, for poly-synthesis.

So expense aside, would you have kept the Tempest as a polysynth? Or did it just not work for you anymore?
I’ve had a Tempest now for 3 months and the AR for just one week so my experience with both is still limited. With that caveat, I can say that I love the Tempest especially for sound design. In fact, it’s so much fun and it sounds so good that I’ve spent the last 3 months with it almost exclusively creating sounds. When I’ve needed to make a beat I’ve been going back to NI Maschine with which I’m much more familiar.
By contrast, within a few hours of receiving the AR I was creating beats and jamming with it (scenes, perf mode, etc.). It’s my first piece of Elektron gear and I have not found the learning curve to be steep as I had heard. I find it quite intuitive and easy to use. Still, once I got into messing with the sounds I missed the flexibility of the Tempest, especially all the modulation options. (But I really like the FM engines!)
If and when the Octatrack is available again I’d like to get one and put it together with the AR and Tempest.

Really! That’s a surprise, since you were a very active participant on the DSI forum. You were one of the last people I imagined would sell it.

I also sold a bunch of other gear I was using to get the desired result with Tempest. I need a portable rig and things were getting out of control.
I would love to have kept it, but it’s an expensive piece of gear, and I’d be happy with a poly 800 ex, for poly-synthesis.

So does this mean your custom plywood workstation is in the garage? Too bad, as that was a prety nice setup. but I can see it would be a nightmare for going live.

He’d been talking about making a change. In fact, that’s what made me give the AR a second look.
His contributions on the DSI forums will be missed for sure!

Oh most definitely.
I love that thing, I would still use it for kicks and snares. Kicks can seem soft, yet they have this really sweet warmth.
Sculpting leads, basses, pads, and weird sounds is just a breeze, and over time I liked it more and more for that. The UI is pretty fantastic in most cases. If pym gets rid of bugs and moves forward with half his ideas in the “Sequencer Discussion thread,” it would be hard not to get one again.
I would have kept it if I was in a position to collect high end synthesizers.
I got really familiar with sequencing on the Tempest, and abusing the roll and arp in 16 tunings mode. However I got the Octatrack an I was just having more fun programming patterns and I was blown away how deep that goes and stays fairly intuitive.
The Tempest can be a simple instrument and sound good, the “Tempest as polysynth” video has a bunch of great examples of samples only, and simple patches.
The Tempest also provides the opportunity to get lost in a modulation black hole.
For me the AR became more attractive because it strips away the black hole (limits parameters), but offers more in sequencing plus fx.

I’ll probably be an active participant on some forum of whatever I am into. I find it a great place for learning.

Yeah the case I was working on is scrapped. I took it out a couple times and got real about the fact it was more than I wanted to be hauling by myself. I’d rather be hauling more speakers. I liked the idea of having this crazy mash up rig, yet the ascetics are important too. So I am still trying to figure it all out, but I know I am starting with AR, OT and a Slim Phatty, and maybe another Slim Phatty. I also tell myself I may build a small modular, I’m prone to denial.

Anyways my AR is supposed to be here tomorrow, the wife will be out of town for a few days. Super excited.

Some of the fills/breaks/drops/builds you bcan do on the temp

are outrageous.

2x2 sliders each can control a pool of 8 parameters

oohh yeah slider pressure aswell

nothing else can touch that stuff

it puts the fun back into drum machines