Hello, I am working on creating a Live PA and before I invest a lot of time in organizing things in a none optimal way, I’d like to ask the community how you would approach this task as best as possible. I would like to say that I am still trying to figure out the best way of using many samples without using sample chains.
I will be using my MPC to start and stop the Octactrack and I will be changing patterns / parts / banks manually as I play. My main question is, what is the best way to switch from 8 distinct samples to another set of 8 distinct samples with distinct patterns?
I’d love to hear any tips or tricks on how to accomplish what I am trying to do.
Switching from a pattern that is using one Part to a pattern that is using a different Part will let you do this. You might want to read Merlin’s Thoughts sometime, it helped me get this sort of thing clear in my mind.
another way to maximize the ability to switch from one set of samples to another would be to sample lock the samples in each pattern and use parts for changes in machines assigned to tracks (including which effects are assigned)… that might help save on parts
What is your aversion to sample chains?[/quote]
Thanks for those have replied!
Well it’s not really an aversion I am fine using them, it’s just that I’d rather not have to prepare the chains etc. I also think sample chains lend themselves best to relatively short or percussive sounds, my octatrack will mostly be using long sample, like 32 or 64 beats or so… my samples are also named appropriately with what they are as well as their respective keys, something I’d lose if I turn them into chains.
You must know, chains are a workaround a trick, nothing wrong with that, but there are tradeoffs when you use them, like the ones I’ve mentioned.
What is your aversion to sample chains?[/quote]
Thanks for those have replied!
Well it’s not really an aversion I am fine using them, it’s just that I’d rather not have to prepare the chains etc. I also think sample chains lend themselves best to relatively short or percussive sounds, my octatrack will mostly be using long sample, like 32 or 64 beats or so… my samples are also named appropriately with what they are as well as their respective keys, something I’d lose if I turn them into chains.
You must know, chains are a workaround a trick, nothing wrong with that, but there are tradeoffs when you use them, like the ones I’ve mentioned. [/quote]
I respect your decision to not use sample chains.
Sample chains can, of course, be used for longer samples. Here’s a discussion of an example.
I also still haven´t really grasped the whole patterns/parts/banks thing, but from what I understood from reading the manual and Merlin´s Thoughts (which explains a lot of stuff way better!), I am assuming you could do this:
-load up the sample slot list (flex machines/static? I tend to use Flex for loops since it seems to time stretch them better? not sure if that´s true) and fill it up with as many samples as you can/need (128 max I think)
-use the first 1-8 samples in pattern 1, just program the pattern as you would normally, make your scenes, yaddayaddah
-load up pattern 2 and do the following:
while holding down the first pattern trig (as you would with a scene button); turn the LEVEL know for that track - the sample slot list will open and you can “sample lock”, as someone mentioned already, the pattern 2 triggers to different samples than are used in pattern 1
and boom, you will actually load a different sample in pattern 2 than in pattern 1.
I´m sure I am missing something here - aside from that the scenes will all the be same as in pattern 1 unless you use a different PART, if I´m not mistaken - but in theory this should work as far as I understand?
-> if I am wrong, PLEASE PLEASE someone correct me!
I´m still in the process of converting all my samples/loops from my own tracks to Octatrack-compatible format, so at the moment I´m using only static one-shot samples and can´t really test it myself.
You are right about trig locking new samples for each pattern. You won’t be able to switch any of the effects though, if you are using them at all. The machines and effects for each track are linked to the Part.
There are a few things to keep in mind about flex vs static machines. The flex machines take up RAM, which is limited. So it is good to use some static machines. If you need to slice up a loop or force the START point to jump around a lot, you need a flex machine for that. Otherwise, you can probably use a static machine.
Also by using both machines, you get more than 128 samples because each machine has it’s own sample list. You have to change projects to get new sample lists, so that can be a bit limiting if you are not careful.
initially I thought I HAD to use “Flex” for timestretched loops etc., because I had a few loops loaded in Static machines that would not loop correctly.
-> as it turns out, I had just cut them poorly and forgotten to assign the correct “original tempo” in the sample attributes… whoops!
yeah, the way I am planning to do it, 128 samples would be alright for what I want to do, but more is always better
once more to be sure, though:
are there any definitive downsides/upshots in using Flex vs. Static machines that everybody should be aware of?!
Yeah, timestretching you can’t really mangle samples in Static machines. But Flex machine capacity is a lot more limited (as samples are loaded into RAM), whereas Static machines stream samples directly from the CF card - thus depending on your CF card quality / bandwidth. It’s really very well described in Merlin’s doc.
Check out page 64 of the manual, The Difference Between Flex and Static Machines. Basically if you need to modulate the STRT point of the sample a lot, use a Flex machine for that. I think this also applies to jumping a lot between slices.
I mmm GUESS, that, of course, you should use the PARTS, like some dudes said here, have 4 banks of 8 different samples, and you can play around with the messiness that happens when you change PARST
but, giving a small analysis.
You can have two patterns, one is a copy of the other, but each trig change the samples with the PARAMETER LOCK.
so, one pattern you can change parts for it to sound different and the other one , you can mash a selection of PARTS so that every time it sounds different.
I use the mpc and the octa in my live pa too and i deal with this by using a bank for each song.
it limits you to 16 songs with 16 patterns each, but everything works flawless here.
Hi,
to change from 1 sample set e.g. used in pattern 1 and 2 to sample pattern set 2 starting with pattern 3 you must store sample set 1 in part 1 (function + part) and sample set 2 in part 2.
The OT cannot store the samples with the pattern itself only in the 4 available parts.
Yes that is what I have gathered from all the answers, any other tips or tricks you may have on how to use both devices in a Live PA context, are you changing banks or triggering patterns from the MPC?
Thanks to everyone who has posted so far, some very informative stuff in here.
This is an answer to the same question above which I also posted on the Octatrack Facebook group. This was written by a very helpful gentleman by the name of Brendan Paul Clarke.
Yeah, you’d probably be fine putting them in the static machine sample slots then. There are 3 basic ways of changing what sample the tracks are playing:
lock the trig to the sample you want (hold the trig and turn the ‘level’ encoder)
change the part - each of the 4 parts can have completely different settings for all 8 tracks, including the assigned sample, but the patterns contain the same trigs
change the bank - each bank has its own track settings, parts, and patterns
You’ll have to figure out what works for you. For example, say you have 4 tracks of backing loops set to the master seq length and 4 tracks of hits/vocals. You could change just the backing loops by copying the part and changing the sample assignment on those 4 tracks, and keep the same pattern/samples for the hits/vocals.
Mostly, I think of a ‘bank’ as a ‘song’ when I’m writing/performing, because each has a unique set of patterns and program change settings for my external instruments. But that’s absolutely not the only way to work on the OT.
Yeah, timestretching you can’t really mangle samples in Static machines.
…[/quote]
Why do you say that? Apart from rapid changes to the STRT parameter,what can’t you do in a Static machine that you can do in a Flex machine?[/quote]
Whoa, I should really strain from distributing unconfirmed information. I stand corrected, thanks for pointing that out.
Also, that opens a whole new world of the OT for me. Till now I was just disregarding static machines existence, based on what I figured out from the naming convention, I guess. “Hey, these are static, so they’re only for streaming samples off the CF!”
Again, disregard my latest entry. Was posting at work, did not have the OT to check beforehand.
