Hi all, is there any solution to eliminate/minimize midi jitter when sequencing hardware via midi from your daw?
I’m not talking about syncing midi drum machines or sequencers with the daw (the solution to that is an erm multiclock), just getting whatever hardware you have sequenced in the daw to actually play on time.
I know that getting no jitter will be impossible since the hardware itself introduces some minimal amount, but I think the majority of the problem may be the midi coming out of the computer via usb. Is there any better way to get midi out though?
So the ERM only corrects timing for clock, but not notes, yeah? Is that why it wouldn’t be a solution for this use case? You’re trying to send actual notes from a software sequencer to hardware, right?
I don’t know the answer to this. I get my MIDI timing to hardware pretty close with Renoise, using manually calculated offsets, but I don’t think that helps with jitter, like you’re asking. Jitter seems to be kind of hard to prevent with computers.
I haven’t measured in a scientific way, but I’ve had better results by making the hardware the master clock and transport, even though the software is sending notes/CCs to the hardware.
I use an RME Raydat PCIe interface that has two physical midi ports in addition to the ADAT optical. The timing is tight and consistent for both clock sync and normal midi note/cc streams. I couldn’t ask for more.
Expert Sleepers USAMO does this well for not much money. Single output of sample accurate MIDI which will significantly reduce MIDI output note jitter.
It’s stronger in this area than Multiclock which doesn’t offer improvement of USB MIDI note output; it’s focused on providing sample accurate clock.
Expert Sleepers also do more expensive options in eurorack which can provide more than 1 MIDI output too if needed.
Wow… I’ve wondered for a while if any company ever made a more practical sample accurate sync solution that was similar to a SMPTE-to-MIDI box…didn’t know expert sleepers make it!! Ty for tip!
I’ll look into the USAMO, thanks. Wish it was more than just a single midi output that everything would have to be crammed through though… So cheap it wouldn’t hurt to just try it though.
Anyone know of any sort of midi over Wi-Fi interface or anything that exists and could be a better solution?
Forgot to mention there’s also the MIDI Time Stamping-style technology that, if you’re using a compatible interface, will send the MIDI data out to the interface first and then let the interface send it at the proper time. This gets past USB jitter. MOTU interfaces on the Mac, and some other devices that require their own drivers may support this (meaning, it typically isn’t available for class-compliant devices). Not sure if there’s an equivalent on Windows.
Doesn’t really apply in the case of just playing ‘thru’ since that needs to happen as fast as possible. I think it mainly applies only for data which is already in the DAW/sequencer.
emagic had their own version of this when using Logic with a Unitor, which may still function if using Logic with a Unitor or its little sibling the AMT… or they may have removed this a long time ago.
Edit: I did some more research and it looks like using the USAMO with multiple instruments is a daw nightmare and doesn’t end up working that well either. So I guess if I went that route I would just have to use it at the end when I am bouncing down my final tracks before mixing and just record one instrument at a time…
Other also inconvenient options include sequencing drums and everything else that needs super tight timing on a hardware sequencer, or quantizing the actual audio after recording.
I guess this is what happens when you use the same protocol for more than 40 years…
The various Expert Sleepers Eurorack modules can control more channels, with enough expanders you could have up to 48 independent MIDI ports if you wanted to. Like the USAMO they work by encoding the MIDI signal as audio in the DAW, then decoding it in the hardware. This way it’s always sample accurate since the DAW just considered it to be audio.
I ended up going with Ableton -> USAMO -> Cirklon -> Everything else.
This is awesome unless you want Ableton to sequence your gear. Everything is super tight on the grid when I record the audio though.
The one synth not doing this is the Virus because I use the Mystery Island plug-in, and it’s super jittery compared to everything else, so I think I may need to rethink how it’s setup.
I looked at them and as far as I can tell I would need a digital audio output (spdif) from my interface to use them. I am already using all my digital outs for my studio monitors, so I would have to buy another interface as well in order to use them. Then add the modules themselves, eurorack case, etc. and I might be in over my head :-). I will keep it in the back of my mind though if I can’t figure anything else out. Thanks so much for the recommendation though, and welcome to the forum!
Yeah, if I sequence from hardware I don’t have issues (I use an E-RM multiclock the same way you are using the USAMO but only a measly hapax instead of a cirklon ;-P). But I really want to sequence external gear from my daw which is where the issue comes in.
Do consider that if sample accurate MIDI/reduced jitter is your goal here then however you try sending MIDI for more than one instrument out of a single MIDI output this will be affected. This is due to the fact that MIDI is serial by its nature so only ever one message can be sent at any given time.
So If you want a single output - then USAMO will work great - but if you want to control multiple synths then Expert Sleepers ES-4 + ESX-8MD will give you 8 separate MIDI outputs for a lot less than the cost of 8 x USAMO (and doesn’t require an analog output from your interface for each channel).
Any kind of sample accurate solution will require a output of some sort per channel - so either switch monitors to analog and use digital outputs for 8 x MIDI output expert solution or alternatively keep monitors on digi and buy a USAMO or two for hardware.
you got me looking into this…from that I saw the ZZZ uses MAX for the timing in the make up for the syncing with this stuff.
so I poked around in MAX and tried sequencing my MD with the notoriously bad syncer [tho ive never really had issue] the MPC. I have max sending MIDI clock to MD and MPC…and its tight AF.
now aside from being super tight. when I swap windows from MAX to this forum I get a stutter. if I stip and start the clock I have no reset built in. so it fucks up. and changing tempo is janky but it could be because I have a super old computer, or I just didn’t set shit up right.
The Roland Um-one MK2 is known for keeping jitter to a minimal level. it’s cheap and works nicely with its dedicated drivers.
you have to check that your daw processes midi time stamps and prioritize midi.
Ableton does that, I am sure others do that also.
You then have ensure your OS and USB peripherals (if you use an USB interface) are as free from processing as possible (other than midi and audio), and it should work seamlessly.
