Should I keep my MD or return?

Elektron Gear Machinedrum
#1

Hello everybody. I just bought my first hardware piece thanks to the great price-reduction offer. Since a few days now I´m a proud owner of a brandnew Machinedrum MKII – but to be honest, I dont know if I should keep it or send it back in order to use the money for other hardware.

I´m interested in a very experimental kind of music, something between sampling manipulation and glitch, also it is important to use the machine in live-performances. the biggest problem I have with the machine so far is, that it sounds way too static (quantization). I´m not interested in a bassdrum on 1 5 9 and 13 beat, I work with delays and effects to get a new field of sounds – so maybe a OT would be the better choice?

I got very interesting sounds out of this nice little box so far, but am not totally convinced if it would be better to use something like a sampler, or maybe start with a mix of cheap hardware and work my way through it. I have to emphasize that my money budget is very limited, therefor it is a total all-in right now with the MD next to me. otherwise it would feel better that I got it for this price, but right now I´m blocking new gear for a few months.

A reason that i bought the MD is 1) that it maybe isnt available in future and i got it for a very good price 2) to have a machine to synthesize sound beside to the machine i want to buy next (maybe OT, maybe OP-1, maybe something else?)

What do you think, is the MD the right addition to my (future) setup? Should I return it and invest in other stuff first?

#2

Keep it. Learn it. You can’t learn it in a few days. It won’t let you down but I would spend half a year with it before I could feel comfortable with it.

1 Like
#3

i think you are being far too hasty in your judgement … but you are in luck, because the MDUW is a very mature and beloved product. as a result, there is lots of resources available to really squeeze as much out of it as possible. this forum being one of those resources (search and ask questions)

tips and tricks collection
http://tarekith.com/assets/machinedrum_tipsandtricks.htm

pitch chart, etc
http://gweep.net/~shifty/machinedrum/
http://gweep.net/~shifty/machinedrum/ptch/sps1.jpg

adjustment of the pitch chart above
http://www.elektronauts.com/t/new-machinedrum-trx-efm-smp-pitch-chart/8243

you say your budget has now been sapped for a few months… well, that is perfect, because a few months is the amount of time I believe you need to invest in the MDUW before you can really make judgements on what it can offer you…especially as someone who is in to glitch and experimental. if someone was just in to 4/4 techno they could make a judgement much sooner. but for your tastes, you have to really explore all functionality and experiment… then and only then can you say it’s not suitable or not.

in my opinion.

secondly, I think you have created a bit of a false dichotomy for yourself…an either/or situation where one doesn’t really exist. you said your budget is tapped out for a few months, well so be it, learn the MDUW over those few months…and when the budget allows I suggest ADDing another box, not replacing one. And yes, the Octatrack and the MDUW would make a great combo for your specified tastes and performance priorities.

hope that helps.

2 Likes
#4

thank both of you very much!

I have to make clear that I got a MD without UW, just MD MKII for 699€.

And yes, of course there is so much to learn, no question – you are right. But again: the question is, if it is worth it – or do I end up with a machine that dictates me a specific range of sound (with the quantization, the same pattern length per track,…) where it is hard to break out.

Therefore my question is to quit now and get money back to invest in another combination. maybe a setup that gives me more from this and that (for example: a cheaper drum computer + a synth/sampler).

thank you!

#5

It is suitable for experimental music. I’ve long been an experimental/electroacoustic/noise artist and I just got the Machinedrum and am really loving it.

(D’oh, just noticed AFTER I wrote this that you said you did NOT have the MDUW… Still, there’s a fair bit here that may be of interest to you or someone else looking at more experimental styles).

However, after 22 years, I’m kindof trying to “go straight” and go for a bit more structured and melodic (I’ve done a fair amount in the past, but I’m trying even harder now), so take my love of the machine with that in mind. However, I still tend to approach it in a fairly similar manner to what I’ve done over the past few years.

Also note, however, that it’s a drum machine. Quantizing to beats and playing percussive sounds is its primary purpose. It has a decent sampling workflow, and people doing more experimental things with it is what lead Elektron to develop the Octatrack, which obviously builds and builds and builds on what the MDUW can do.

So yes - first, you have to really ask yourself if you want a drum machine at all, because the MDUW workflow is heavily optimized around that.

But you can push any groovebox / drum machine to its limits. Part of the fun of being an experimental musician is using gear in unexpected or unintended ways. My friend Arvo Zylo makes some wonderful noisy work by pushing the Yamaha RM1X box to its limits.

In fact, listening to Arvo’s work earlier this year got me thinking about grooveboxes again. I hated some of my prior experiences with them, so I decided to look at the Machinedrum as being the “next level up” boxes that were close in spirit and design to some of the late 90’s grooveboxes, but with a lot more freedom (less lock in / presets geared towards the styles of the day).

Some things you can do on the more experimental with the MDUW:

[ul]
[li]Learn resampling to do live mangling of your patterns as you’re playing them.[/li]
[li]Learn parameter locks and the CTRL tracks.[/li]
[li]Push some of the synth-focused bass drums way down with long decays and some slight LFOs to get some low rumbly drones.[/li]
[li]Add in some SIN machines and short decay kick drums with a MUTE POS set to mute that low rumbly bass track to do some Alva Noto / Ryoji Ikeda / click and cut style beats.[/li]
[li]Look into using the swing and accent tracks in interesting ways.[/li]
[li]Add a cheap external piece of gear like a Volca or Pocket Operator that can take a ‘sync in’ signal. Use the GND-Impulse machine on a dedicated out to trigger that machine. Route it back in to one of the Machinedrum’s INPut machines (I’m doing this with the Mute Synth II and it’s awesome).[/li]
[li]Find a good cheap midi-able synth (maybe, again, a Volca) and use a MIDI track to control it. Use parameter locks to unlock sounds you can’t easily do directly on that machine. Resample that back into the MD.[/li]
[li]Or hell, just find some interesting samples of your own or from around the web and cut them up funny and load up a sampleback full of weird sounds. I know people who do this with noise gear that can be too loud and unpredictable on stage so that they still have sounds that few other people have, but don’t have to worry about that gear going too wild.[/li]
[li]The multiple inputs and outputs can be used to create unique setups, including using external delays and effects only on select tracks.[/li]
[/ul]

2 Likes
#6

If this is your primary consideration then you would do better with an OT than with your non-UW MD.

There will be second-hand MDs around for several years if you decide to buy one at a later date.

If you want to synthesize sound rather than focus on live sampling manipulation, which contradicts what you previously said, then only you can judge whether the non-UW MD is giving you what you want.

#7

oh i see.

in that case, sell/return it, and get a MDUW instead. Followed by an Octatrack after a few months.

consider buying used goods if money is tight.

#8

I also bought the MD MKII to go with my MnM but shortly after I realized I needed the UW version for the +Drive option. I don`t think its limited at all.
Just takes time to learn like at least a few months. However the MD non UW
does seem to lend itself to certain genres which I am interested in.
I think like any piece of Elektron Gear you need to embrace both its limits and strengths. I know the quantization is the part I like the least.

Based on your mentioning of the experimental style you are after and the quantizing being a problem, I really think you need the UW version or OT.
If you can resample your drum patterns you can manipulate them and get interesting timing and grooves going on. I know that the machine drum like the MnM is most easily suited for 4/4 styles but if you work hard and break the rules you can get experimental by just pushing every available parameter as far as it can go. I know some time stale timing makes me cringe but I then go and mess about and soon I feel like I’m heading in the right direction again. For example Retrig alone will add some triggers in-between steps along with tweaking the Decay time.
If you just hit record play and start tweaking and the patterns you get dont make you want to keep the MD then maybe its not for you.
Check out the E12 machines.
Im 2 weeks in now.
I know my first impressions of the factory kits and patterns did not sell me much and I did second guess my purchase but as soon as I started tweaking and locating those key parameters I felt much better. I have not had much time to check out the Octatrack but I got a demo in the store once by a guy who seemed to know it well. I was very impressed and perhaps you might want to check it out but I have a feeling its a far steeper learning curve.
I also have other sampler not sure if that is the case with you?
My biggest problem in the end with the MKII was the lack of a plus drive.
Since I have the option on the MnM. Otherwise the MKII is a steal at that price considering the rest of the line up. In the end I don`t think you will ever find a piece of gear that is both easy to use and makes great music.
some of the most obtuse gear lead to the most creative interesting sounds.
I feel like the Elektron gear have that in spades.
Just my Ramblings so follow your gut my friend.

#9

thank you again!

I tried a few more things and am happy with the results, thats not a question if I like the sounds or not. Noby and especially jshell made me clear, thats it is up to me pushing the MD to its limit, what I am willing to do. I feel more concerned about the fact, that I choose the MD to work with for the next months as my main piece with the decision to keep it, instead of other stuff (about this: I´m looking for an OT since last year, trying to get a good price for a second hand unit with warranty on it. Suddenly I read about the price reduction offer and hit the button on a new MD, even if I never really missed one – but at this price I wanted to grab it immediately. So now I´ve got a MD on my desk instead of the OT).

here are my pros and contras of keeping or returning the MD:

If I keep it…

[ul]
[li]… I get the possibility to synthesize sounds, create glitchy patterns with the ability to add a bassdrum or bring in something that reminds you of a rhythm, all in one box[/li]
[li]…can run complex programs on a computer without worrying about crashing, because I mainly run the MD[/li]
[li]…get a classical piece of gear for a very good price, instead of buying one second hand without warranty[/li]
[/ul]

If I return it…

[ul]
[li]…I can invest in other gear (I´ve got a OP-1, OT, SP-404 on my list)[/li]
[li]…I get the chance to buy an older MD second hand, if I miss it[/li]
[li]…I maybe let it go too fast, trying it out just a few days[/li]
[/ul]

#10

you should return it while you can. the non UW units don’t hold their value as well as the MDUW units… so selling it down the line, you will take a hit.

and since you make glitch/experimental music… I mean, it’s a no brainer, you sumply must use the UW unit. period!

so really, return that unit while you can and get your money back and then worry about what to spend your money on going forward. the only thing absolutely 100% certain to me is that you return it, what to do after that is debateable… but I would suggest going with a MDUW mk2 … used or new … followed by Octatrack.

ymmv : )

#11

Keep it, or sell it for a uw.

If you keep it you’ll see that’s it’s perfect for glitch & experimental.

You don’t want 4 on the floor ? Don’t do 4 on the floor.

Choose odd number of step, use chaining patterns or song mode with differents numbers of step.

The MD will surprise you.

Eventually buy another sequencer (Squarp Pyramid) for polymeter or différents length of patterns.

With other gear, non uw is great.

#12

you can use the md for glitch and experimental … sure

but it doesn’t hold a candle to the mduw, particularly for these sounds.

ram machines:
case closed.

#13

ok, I checked it and could get a MDUW for around 800€ second hand without warranty online, but dont feel comfortable with that. Instead of this I would buy an OT for 950 used.

I hit the button immediately during the price-reduction because I´m sure to get a OT sooner or later, therefore I thought that I can safe the 400+ € to make it to the OT asap.

now I´m questioning if I can break the MD in order to create glitch and non-rhythms to add it to my setup (OT, in future) or if I should quit and move on to a piece of gear that fits better. but for now, I`m feeling attracted to keep it instead or returning… just a little bit, but still not sure!

#14

Always difficult to give advice on matters like these. It’s all very subjective, and the elektron boxes can be used in many different ways.

But still, given your musical interests, I’d say sell the MD and get either a UW version or an OT. Not thereby saying that the unit you’ve already got can’t be used for crazy experimental stuff, but the sample options really makes a huge difference imho.

Choosing between MDUW/OT, in your case I personally would probably lean slightly towards the OT. I do own both though, and I love both of them. The learning curve is steeper on the OT, I think.

Good luck with your choice:)

#15

For experimental music I’d buy Octatrack. As it is a sampler, it can sounds like any synth, drum machine or any music instrument or even orchestra. You have to just load correct samples into it. And if you use computer for music production, OT is especially great thing to have: create samples/loops/songs in software and copy them to OT where you can add effects, assign scenes (killer feature with crossfader), create arrangement and play live your music.
Also OT is a great machine to build your hardware setup around it: it has mixer (2 stereo inputs) and 8-track midi sequencer (will be super-usefull if you decide to buy ext synth).
It has Cue outs, so you can send any track to external fx-processor and return it back to OT inputs.
But it has some limitations.
Glitch: https://youtu.be/RTRui7thpJA
Live set on OT: https://soundcloud.com/s-sh-1/s-sh-breakstones-set-p-spb-12

#16

The OP-1 is a wonderful playground of experimentation for sure. It’s a sampler, and a synth, and a drum machine, and a recorder, and an FX box, a looper, so many things. If you’re looking for more of an “all in one” for track creation, it may suit your needs more. It’s great for song writing and travel, and the FX/Compressor really put it over the top.

It has some considerable limitations vs the MD, though, namely track count, but the resampling and overdubbing not only give it a great vibe of sound but can also make up for those limitations.

Combined with a solid bi/multi-timbral synth to be sequenced by a MD MIDI machine, the MD can go quite far, sonically.

If you’re looking to perform live, the MD will probably take you farther.

So, ask yourself which features you want and go from there.

#17

You may also want to consider keeping the Machinedrum and getting something like the Bastl Microgranny.

http://www.bastl-instruments.com/instruments/microgranny/

It’s a fun, fairly cheap, granular sampler/player/looper. In my upcoming live show, I’m using it more than I’m using any UW sampling on my Machinedrum. Different kind of beast than MDUW or Octatrack but good for glitchy kind of things, or just loops and textures.

It has a MIDI in and at the very least, you can have it do live chopping of loops in time with the Machinedrum’s clock. Set this with a dynamic offset and you have some fun sounds/rhythms skipping around but timed to your other gear.

You can also sequence its MIDI via the Machinedrum, including any of its CC parameters (sample rate, crush, attack, release, grainsize, start, end; and even program change). Each sound can be configured to change pitch for different note values, or use the note values for offset within the sample.

That way you can keep the MD for drum synthesis and its other goodies, and get sampling that may tickle your experimentalist hat for cheap.

You can then chain other Bastl Trinity instruments to the Microgranny and they’ll share power and midi (notes and clock). I’ve got the Trinity Drum on my Microgranny as part of my upcoming live set too, using it to add some glitchy rhythms while I’m going through transitions on the Machinedrum and other gear in my set.

http://www.bastl-instruments.com/instruments/trinity/

#18

thank all of you for the input and your thoughts!

for me its not a question whether to get a MDUW or OT, in this case I would pick the OT immediately. I wont upgrade to a MDUW – the question is to keep the MD and add other gear (later) or return it now to get the money to buy something else (what would most likely be an OT or OP-1).

the solution jshell is talking about sounds really nice to me. I had a look at these samplers before but did not focus enough, thank you very much for reminding me on these!

I have the feeling that I can work on two fields with the MD in one box, thats why I want to keep it: getting glitchy stuff on the one hand and here and there an intensive bassdrum-part, transform it into non-rhythm staccato on the other. the bad scenario would be, if I stick to the MD, that I quit after half a year and have to sell it, but I guess thats how to bring these machines closer.

maybe I´ll go with the little bastl sampler and the MD, and after a while (which i can use to save up money) I can upgrade to an OT. sounds good?!

#19

or of course I could change the scenario this way: return the MD and get a second hand OP-1 in combination with a Bastl Sampler.

Thats tough!

#20

That’s too big of a loss of real-time performance control, sequencing, and control of individual layers.

Regular MD + Bastl sampler will keep you going for a long time. jshell is absolutely right. Give yourself some time with the MD.

MD is more immediate for percussion synthesis than Octatrack. Use MD + Bastl for awhile and see how much you can do with it. Bastl will handle loop sampling which you can then speed up or slow down and get very fun rhythmic interplay.