So I used to do music with fasttracker II and Impulse tracker a few decades ago. I was thinking about portable tools that would allow me to write tunes quickly on the go, be able to play with samples and everything and I am curious about going back to making tunes with a tracker.
I saw that recently there have been a few trackers released as hardware machines, mainly the M8 and Polyend. I found second hand polyend on sale locally and was really close to buying it but it is still a relatively expensive thing. The issue is appart from being standalone I don’t exactly see how it stood out from a regular software tracker on a laptop. Do hardware trackers have any outstanding features or is the appeal only in the form factor and removing you from the distractions of a computer (reading emails, trolling on elektronauts…) ?
Also a thing to note is I own a very small laptop, a GPD Pocket 2. I bought it for professionnal purpose a year ago but don’t need it anymore so I can easily repurpose it. And as the name suggest it, that thing is small enough to fit in most trousers front and pockets. Being a sys engineer I am also fluent with linux so there is nothing that prevent me to set up this tiny laptop to strip out the unneccessary and reduce boot time as well as start the tracker immediately in full screen without having to go through the process of logging in, start the app, etc and make it shutdown when I exit the tracker so that I don’t get distracted into firing up a browser or anything. Only thing missing is an input audio port but since I nearly always carry my Tascam DR-05X with me and it works as a class compliant usb interface the only thing I would need would be to carry a usb cable.
So is there anything on the polyend/M8 that I can’t do with the free Milkytracker or a 68$ Renoise licence? As I see it from just having read part of the M8 and Polyend related thread buying the M8 or polyend would seem like throwing money to the window compared to just using the free Milkytracker or buy a 68$ Renoise licence. I see the appeal of having only dedicated keys instead of a full blown keyboard and a mouse, especially for someone who has always been into grooveboxes and never used a tracker on a pc or amiga but I have that past experience and am quite used to learn shortcuts and do everything from a computer keyboard so it doesn’t seem like a huge thing to overcome to me. On the plus side using a software tracker on a pocket laptop allow me to plug it on an external screen and rework my tunes at home more comfortably. And it can do double duty as backup storage for my photos when travelling and I only have intermittent internet connectivity.
Get Renoise, it’s the perfect next step from FT2 style trackers.
I say this as someone who owns (and loves) the M8. The main reason why I like the M8 is because I can take it to live gigs and perform with it in a more convenient way than Renoise allows. If you’re not concerned about that, then Renoise is a perfectly good option.
The recent M8 update makes it capable of some different, more generative things though, so that’s something to think about too.
You could always get a Teensy 4.1 and use M8 headless if you want to try it out.
You cannot compare music equipment just by its price. If it would work, why should someone buy a synth for many thousand bucks, when you can get synth-plugins for a DAW for free? Why even make music if you can download it for free?
There is a huge difference between making music on a computer to making it on hardware. Some like the one more than the others. Everyone is different here. Some people like to turn knobs, love what real analog circuits bringt, that digitals never can. Some like to have all the power on one computer and orchestrate everything with a few mouse clicks.
How It is to you, no-one will be able to tell you but yourself. I do both. I love playing with hardware sequencers and synths with real knobs, but I also love producing songs on a computer. Its totally different with (for me) totally different results, but: No Computer with a screen and a Tracker-Software can compete with the small form factor of the M8. It really fits in a pocket, for you to take it everywhere!
I owned a Polyend Tracker, I own a M8, I tried Renoise. Tracker on a computer don’t work for me anymore. I tried it a few times, and went back to normal DAW over and over again. But I must say: I am way more a Synth-Guy then a pure Sample guy.
I personally didn’t like the Polyend because a. its sample (mono) only, has some strange design decisions an I was missing a ton of features in modulation when I got it back in the days. One of my feature requests regarding that was closed a week or two ago, so it might have gotten better today.
I really really love the M8. It is amazingly tiny with a very powerful UI using the 8 buttons. Its Battery driven and all you need is a pair of headphones to get going. I love that, because I now can music more or less everywhere I am.
Trying M8 is nearly as easy for a “few bucks”. As pselodux wrote, buy a Teensy 4.1 and use it headless, either with a keyboard or a game controller. It renders the screen in a chrome browser or a standalone program (can be used from the M8 device too) and sends Audio via USB (the M8 does it too). Software is free and you can do everything with it for under 30 bucks.
I would try it out. The next sale phase should start later in january it seems.
If you want to perform live with it, I’d recommend the hardware trackers. If you’re using it at home/in the studio, I reckon Renoise on a laptop is fine.
Even without headphones the M8 can be used, it has two tiny internal speakers. Not the best sound of course, but it’s usable if headphone is not around.
And yes, the M8 is a great piece of hardware and has a magical piece of software in it. You have to experience it to believe how much it can do. I’ve mine just a few days but it is a keeper.
Not sure if you have any Teensy controllers lying around (since you mentioned you’re in a technical position I figure you might be a tinkerer), but even if you don’t it’s worth grabbing a teensy to run M8 headless, and then decide if you like it. If you do, then there’ a hardware upgrade option you can get instead. But the setup with your GPD pocket and teensy will be a little less pocketable for sure – you need to have the teensy connected to the the GPD via USB, and then you can pass the teensy audio out to the GPD.
Worth a shot anyway!
Of course, all the other option you’re describing would be great too, Renoise is fantastic and probably the best solution if you don’t want new hardware. I’m sure someone has asked Trash80 about standalone software versions of M8, but for now it has to run on Teensy hardware one way or another.
I’m a new Renoise user and I use it for DNB/Jungle style music and I think it’s great. Was really contemplating the Polyend Tracker but using Renoise with the computer keyboard is almost like using a hardware tracker with the added bonus of a mouse making it super easy to slice samples with.
That said, the Polyend tracker would be an awesome unit to use with a battery pack on the go or away from the computer.
Even outside of trackers as a category, M8 might be the best and most capable piece of music-making hardware I’ve ever owned, period. It’s lightning in a bottle. No amount of price comparison or feature comparison on paper really gets at the entire gestalt of the thing. Deepest, funnest, most full-featured, best form factor, most addictive, most productive. Get the teensy/headless version or try your best to get the official hardware next year, it’s worth it. You can always sell it for at or near the same price if you don’t get along with it. I’d guess the listing would last under a day on this forum.
Agreed. Try M8 headless, though I will say I enjoy the hardware version a lot more. Getting such a nice sampler plus those synth engines…I dunno, I own a fair amount of cool gear, but have not touched anything but the M8 since I got it 5 or 6 weeks ago.
I’m curious, how durable is the M8? Is it a solid build or is it closer to a pocket operator? I was thinking of something I could have in my coveralls at my semi-dirty job to tune around with.
Its way more OT mk2 like, then Pocket Operator like. I would definitively do some gigs with it. Buttons are keyboard-buttons not those cheap ones you find on lots of synths, and they are replaceable (not just the caps).
Nice, I’ve got an OTmk2 and hearing that makes me feel better about considering buying the M8. Still not sure if I’m going to do it cause I don’t use Renoise nearly as much as I should be for someone who’s considering buying a portable tracker, but I guess we’ll see how that turns out in the end lol.
I did not buy it as a tracker. I did buy it as a highly flexible sequencer-synthesizer-sampler combination. The M8 is an 8-track sequencer with sound-locks (as you tell every step the instrument you play) and 3 p-locks per step, where every track is monophonic for internal sound engines (FM Synth can act as 4 voice-one osc per track synth) and polyphonic (4 notes I think) for MIDI, where you have the same restrictions than on Elektron Sequencers (All notes on a step share the same velocity and length. More or less the same as the Octatrack-chords. It has a sampler that can act as scwf-synth, that streams its data from the SD card, a chip tune synth, that can do more than chip tune, a MI Plaits and a 4-Osc FM Synth with different wave-forms per OSC and a 4-Operator-Mode that acts kind of a 4-voice Synth. Per song 128 instruments, each can be one of the above or MIDI where you can play 8 voices simultaneously, but you play a different instrument on each step. Each instrument with its own 2 Envelopes and 2 LFOs, a filter (LP, HP, BP etc), Limiter with very cool “clipping options” that can act as nicely sounding distortion, and 3 send effects (chorus, reverb and delay) where delay is BMP synced and also can send to reverb.
Ah, and its stereo-input has its own section in the mixer where you can send the stereo signal to the FX as well as split it into 2 separate useable mono inputs.
Don’t only think of it as a tracker. Think of it as a really really powerful groove box in the size of a gameboy that just uses tracker as its sequencing.
The only question one should asks him/herself is: are my eyes good enough for the screen.
I tried the Polyend Tracker and it’s a great piece of hardware… but if you’re into trackers, NOTHING beats a proper qwerty keyboard with cursor keys and a numeric keypad. I can fully program a 64 step column in like 5 seconds. If you’re a programmer, I’m sure it’s the same for you. I know Polyend Tracker has shortcuts for this, but it isn’t the same. Stick to your laptop with renoize. A custom build running just renoize isn’t going to crash (probably!)
@Uija you mention hardware sequencers/synths with real knobs and such, I hear you. Difference here is the M8 is just made of keys/buttons which is exactly what my tiny laptop is made of, although in larger quantity. Polyend seems to have a single dial but how much is it of use I don’t know.
Appart from the gameboy form factor of the M8, I am still struggling to figure out what these two would do best than renoise on my GPD. Boot time of the device is probably faster but I can wake up my pocket laptop from suspend as fast so it is not as if I need to shut it down completely. Are they faster to operate to someone accustomed to his software shortcuts. I mean nobody ever decided to control his tracker with a gamepad because it was more convenient, which is pretty much the amount of buttons the M8 provide.
I am not trying to diminish the usecase of the M8 and the developer’s work, it probably makes a lot of sense if you don’t want to carry a full size laptop or buy a much smaller one. It just appears that in my case I already have the pocket one.
I guess instead of looking at what the M8/polyend does better or worse I’d rather have a look at trying out software trackers and see what are their limitations in my portable use case. If for example they are unworkable without having to go back & forth between keyboard and mouse I will definitely hate that as I want something quick and portable, not a DAW. And the trackpad thingy on my pocket computer is really small, but maybe it is workable using the touchscreen who knows. I remember in my impulse tracker days it didn’t require a mouse. I am not so sure about renoise or Milkytracker. Maybe the correct answer is to go back to the impulsetracker days and try Schism Tracker, its closest modern incarnation.
Well I have a train trip tomorrow, I think only real life test will allow me to figure out if I can use that or if I should try an M8 or stick to regular grooveboxes or advanced things like MPC Lives. I’ll load my pocket pc with some samples, the 3 aformentionned trackers and see how they suit the job and report back. Depending on how crappy it is I’ll order that Teensy board to try out the M8 firmware…
I use the M8 in the camper, in the waiting room of my doctor, at the bus station, and in the evening, lying in bed before sleep. I have it in the pocket of my jacket when I do more then a dog-walk and can even pop it out, when I am waiting for me food-to-go is made and I am waiting. No laptop can do all that.
And as I wrote: I do a lot of music on my MacBook, but doing so, is something completely different. I event don’t make the same genre of music itb vs otb.
I am not saying that it might be the same for you, but in my experience, having a device that is made for something, and software on a laptop are 2 totally different kind of things.
If your use case is “I am sitting at my desk with a computer in front of me all the time I want to make music, and I am totally fine doing all of it with a computer keyboard and a mouse” there will be nothing out there, that is more powerful than a computer! And there is nothing more extendable and while doing so, cheaper than going software in the box, even if you buy “expensive” plugins.
