you’re not wrong, it just doesn’t negate what I’m saying and you’re exactly right the 1kpf is always key anytime it shows up in an instrument, but it’s not just that, it’s the combination of the 1kpf and the elektron sequencer that take the model samples to a place the lofi 12 can’t go… I’m a heavy reasamplist on all of my other samplers so I understand your sentiments but the model samples is so good it can mangle samples without resampling or direct sampling… and I make hiphop, the samples is wonderful for hiphop imo… really depends on the source material you put in it…
this doesn’t mean the 12 isn’t capable, I it’s just a little convoluted imho… and I think they might make it a little less so in the future, it’s not the feature set, the digitakt has a better flow as well but it has a lot more features… it’s just how sonic ware brought them together imo… and I haven’t written it off, I’m definitely gonna pick it up again later on
I genuinely don’t understand the comparison between the Model: Samples and the Lofi 12 outside of the fact that I guess you can get a used Model: Samples for about the same price. The Lofi 12 does things that the Samples just doesn’t even set out to do. It’s not just direct sampling and resampling, it samples at different sample rates and bit depths. (Or at least it simulates bit depth reduction. I’m still not clear on that part.) Then there’s the polyphonic play and the arpegiator. Not to mention things like loop points.
I think that the only comparisons to the Lofi 12 that make sense are to older samplers like the Zoom Sampletrak and the Akai S20. Or some combination of samplers and effect pedals or software emulations.
Personally, I own a Zoom Sampletrak but it’s pretty limited with polyphonic playback. You can set up a sample to play over two octaves with 8 note polyphony. But to do that you need to manually pitch the sample across the pads. You also can’t set up loop points on the Sampletrak. So I’m interested in picking up a Lofi 12 to handle that kind of stuff.
Where the Sampletrak is better is sample time. Samples can be longer than 4 seconds. Chopping is also a lot more straightforward. The sequencer is pretty bad though. So I think controlling the Sampletrak from the Lofi 12 or controlling both from my Digitakt would be a lot of fun.
I think as you stated the main reasons why they are being compared is because they sit on a relatively similar price point, as people would called them “entry” price level samplers, while volca sample/po-33 would be almost toy-like the model and the liven seem to be complex enough to be considered a bit higher standard.
As you said tho, the lofi just destroys the model in terms of actual functions and versatility, and they also seem to be targetting different things. Model:samples seems more precise and neutral while lofi-12 seems to be obviously more lofi and about the “vibe”.
To be honest, I would never recommend the model:samples over the lofi-12 at this point. I believe elektron purposefully gimped the model and the lack of updates for it when sonicware is pushing updates after updates on the lofi… which makes me believe the liven is a safer choice.
It’s a lot of things. Like I was saying, the Lofi 12 is doing something different. I’ve been messing around with playing my Sampletrak polyphonically over the last few months. I would really like a machine that can get that kind of sound without a bunch of work arounds. That’s not the 404.
I also kind of hated the original. So even with all the improvements on the mk2, it’s not something I’m super interested in buying. So if I had 500 or so extra dollars to buy a sampler I’d probably think about picking up something else.
Yes the model:samples is gimped for no real reason. As it stands right now I don’t think you can justify buying it for 400 euros when you can get the lofi-12 for like 250-300 euros.
Also one is an actual sampler while the other is a sample player.
Yeah, I liked my Model: Samples a lot. I would go as far as saying most of its limitations make a kind of sense to me. But it’s just not a sampler.
I sold mine to help fund a Circuit Rhythm. There are some things that the Model: Samples is better at. For example, it has much better sequencer resolution and swing per track. So it’s easier to get the kind of groove you want.
But again, it’s not a sampler. I can’t just sit a Model: Samples down next to a turntable and sample things as I hear them. And it doesn’t resample. So it doesn’t matter how smooth the workflow is or how nice it is to have a basically knob per function sample player. It’s not a sampler.
Also, one area where the workflow on the Samples is pretty bad is on sample locking. From what I’ve seen of the demos and walk throughs this is slightly more complicated than it needs to be on the Lofi 12 with the banks. But there’s none of this locks folder business.
Last theoretical thought from me on M:S vs. Lo Fi, as I don’t actually own either:
I’m a relatively new Digitakt owner. I love it and am extremely impressed with everything to do with Elektron from the design to customer support.
Yet there is about a 0% chance I would buy a M:S and am about 70% considering buying a Lo Fi.
I know I’m not Elektron’s target customer for the Models series as they are using these boxes as a gateway to the bigger machines like the one I already own, but I still feel like they missed a trick here.
The fact M:S is small is great, but no true portability as they are not battery powered. Also, as others have mentioned, the Models feel intentionally crippled, rather than just limited like the Lo Fi.
I feel like Elektron could have designed and positioned M:S as a portable sketchbook to develop ideas that would later end up on Digi or Octatrack and maybe had 1 or 2 interesting bonus features that weren’t on the Digi and they could have sold a boatload more of them to people like me who want a fun, portable sampler/groovebox.
On top of that I find the current price point of the M:S awkward at $350. A little too expensive to be a no brainer fun purchase like the Lo Fi and really not too far off from a SP MK2 which seems much more full featured, well supported and portable.
I agree on not being real comparisons, really what I’m comparing these days is just the workflows between all these instruments… I’ve returned a lot of stuff recently and it’s all been in regards to the workflow… the model samples is hard to beat and is kind of setting a standard for me… I like the feature set of the lofi but couldn’t deal with the workflow, kinda like you’re saying about the sample trek which I’ve also returned… capability wise all of these instruments can do a lot but it’s the workflow that I’m really looking for these days hence I tried out the polyend play and some things are pretty quick on it but overall no matter the price point I haven’t seen anything lately that has the balance and workflow of the model samples, everything else seems weirdly convoluted in some way or another. I would probably do like you’re thinking and have to sequence that stuff with the dt but I don’t wanna have to go through all that.
but yeah I know none of these musings make much sense in the more detailed scheme of things
I struggled with it too at first… it was the first beat machine that didn’t sample that I ever bought and I’ve got a million post in the model samples thread begging for them to do better… but, once I got over that and just began to focus on the workflow I ended up buying another, and model cycles to complete the trio… have returned the play, lofi 12, sample trek, and the 404mk2… because I need to move like in those clips, quick and fluid, no head scratching moments when crafting a groove.
I guess I’d rather have a better workflow and less features than more features with a workflow that frustrates me, however I have other samplers so the model is like an sketchpad that can often be an advanced sketchpad as well. … imho the only thing that comes close to it’s workflow is the digitakt
Just curious, in what way do you consider the Liven has a poor workflow? Nobody can deny it has a different workflow to the M:S but once you understand how all the Livens work (they are all very similar) they are pretty simple machines to navigate imo. Sequencing melodic tracks in particular is an absolute joy.
I wouldn’t describe it as poor, it’s just not as smooth as the 1kpf vibe of the model samples which is something I wish more devs would aspire to… even the digitakt has the core of this workflow even though it’s got many more menus and pages etc… I’m gonna revisit it later as I’m intrigued by where the devs might take it, I think they’ll revamp some of the workflow of the sample trek too in the future
its 2 seconds in 24khz or 4 seconds in 12khz per track per pattern.
in regard to the workflow this is the sampler i have been looking for. i have had the model samples too which is a fantastic machine. and i still have my model cycles. no doubt powerhouses if you take advantage of what they offer. but this thing reminds me a lot ofthe korg es1. its very similar but with all the stuff it was missing and should have had in the first place plus a lot more added that the second electribe sampler is missing and even the next electribe sampler doesnt have. but i cut my teeth on the es1 and its the machine i learned to love despite its limits. mainly the sequencer. so the lofi 12 is a great improvement with a lot more ‘play’ and inspiration added into it that really gets stuff flowing for me. and whatever you cant sequence you can resample playing live or whatever. chopping is a great addition as well. i mainly make old jungle, breakcore, old school breakbeat, electro, rave and hardcore, and my stupid version of boom bap style stuff. and let me tell ya this thing is whats up. it has a nice sound. crunchy and warm and has thump. its no 1200 or akai but it can kick it imo. the workflow is so much like the es-1 but like i said is greatly improved and like a dream with the dice(probability), random and step remix settings. it makes it more elektron like in its ability. i can get a lot out of this thing. will you? idk but i hope this gives you a better idea of how this thing is set up. i have gone through more samplers than i care to admit and this thing may not be perfect but its pretty dang good.
