which has the better sample editing?
I haven’t used BlackBox, but sample editing on the SP is really nice.
Thanks. I have Loopy Pro and it is very cool, and iPads for their synths and sample fodder are amazing. But I still prefer having something physical.
Interesting! Got a digitakt that I love but also a rytm and they overlap a bit. Was looking for a more sampling focused workhorse and both are interesting but not convincing. I did not know there were advanced apps like this on IOS!
I have had the BlackBox since it first came out. It has had many updates and is much more useful than when it was first introduced.
I am familiar with the SP-404’s having played with them a bit. I use Koala as well and am familiar with the sampling/resampling workflow.
I love my BlackBox, especially for how I use it, but there are many limitations which I believe make the comparison to the SP-404 Mark2 unequal. I will attempt to explain, and also speak to your other gear (IPad and laptop) which evens the score if used together with the BB.
First thing to say is no, an IPad with Loopy Pro or any app is not fundamentally better, or smoother, or anything else than the SP or BlackBox. Of course some may think so, and that is to be expected since everyone will have different wants, needs, and ways of working in their production. SP’s are great, the BlackBox is great, and IPads are great. The Loopy Pro app is very nice, but certainly doesn’t make other apps obsolete, and does not negate the usefulness of the two hardware sampler in question. That’s an apples and oranges comparison.
The OP said he would mostly use it for midi. Be warned that entering midi on the piano roll in the BlackBox using its touchscreen is awful. It’s clunky, limited, lacking basic features, and underwhelming. Having said that, what I do is either use a midi keyboard to play in and record midi onto the piano roll, or create midi clips on other devices and then load them into the BB. This way I can avoid the BlackBox touchscreen frustrations. For other things besides the piano roll, the BB touchscreen works well.
Another shortcoming for the BB compared to the SP-404 Mk2 is it’s lack of FX. This can be overcome since you have both Logic on a computer, and an IPad. Samples can be created and massaged on those two devices, then loaded into the BlackBox for playing.
A big plus for your current setup is the Mark2’s ability to be a class compliant audio interface and midi pad controller for your IPad and computer. Using an app like Loopy Pro, you could have a clip launching workflow like the BlackBox, but with a much larger and better responding touchscreen.
I use my Digitakt in this way, as an Audio interface with my IPad. It’s a very powerful setup. You can create samples, you can use looping apps, any effect you need, DAW’s to arrange songs or record jams… the possibilities are endless. Even the free or lite version of Ableton on your computer would give this workflow as well.
If you weren’t going to use your computer DAW, or IPad, and just wanted one hardware device to jam on, I would stick with the SP because of its effects and playability over the BlackBox. But I would strongly advise to use the SP with the iPad and/or computer because of the things I stated above.
I can tell you that the small, well built, slick form factor of the 1010music BlackBox and BlueBox are a joy to hold and use. You just need a way of creating samples and sound design to get the most out of the BB, which you have in spades with Logic and the IPad.
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Thanks @Suspect_Frequency, nice detailed post.
I don’t want to use my laptop really, except for mixing down. So yes I want a one box solution for all composition up to mixing. I don’t mind using my iPad to sample different apps, but I don’t want to work and build song directly on it or in LogicI want to do that in hardware.
So, either the BB or SPm2 would be the main composition units, using the iPad to sample from.
I really like the look of the Blackbox, but yes the piano roll looks fiddly. I don’t want to create the MIDI elsewhere and import it.
Perhaps the SPm2 is best. The alternative is an MPC. I’ve had a 500, 1000 and a 4000 in the past. Really liked the 1000. Not really sold on the new MPCs. Tried the software. Tried the Studio. Wasn’t keen.
If anyone asked me what single hardware unit I’d recommend in the 500-1000$ range to produce and complete songs, I would wholeheartedly recommend the MPC One. I use an Akai Force as my main unit in the bedroom studio. I have DAW’s (Live and Logic) but do most of my jamming and production on the Force.
If I had to hemorrhage gear, everything else would go be fore the Akai - Digitakt gone, Digitone Keys gone, BlackBox gone, DAW’s gone. I would keep my iPad as a sound and sampling source.
The new MPC’s certainly have their own shortcomings, as does the Force or any piece of gear. But the MPC’s are very well rounded and have many options. Luckily for now, they can all stay and play together. Good luck on your decisions!
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I hate that the world is like this but the mk2’s are selling 4 around 1k so you could buy a black box and another device (I recently got a 404a for 250🙃).
I’ve had a black box and never gelled with the touchscreen interface.
You could also sell the mk2 and get an octatrack which I think stands up against any sampler ever. Surgical and precise like a mpc and colorful and poetic like an sp <3
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I love the bb … for me bb + a small fx box like the cheap zoom is a powerful combo.
I have the sp mk ii. It’s v good, but workflow is still rough around the edges but sounds great and has a lot of promise.
With the bb though, it can take a 1TB sample library, browsing is easy, sample edit and slice is strong, IO is on a whole different level.
Sp workflow is a thing though - enjoyable but peculiar if you don’t like it.
One box that does everything (assuming some firmware fixes and tweaks) sp is a good choice. But you’ll need to work on becoming an ‘sp head’ and build your composition skills within that special workflow.
But if you can do 2 boxes, bb + say a zoom fx, you’re getting 2 Swiss Army knives and great features. No pads though, less buttons, less knobs… if i could choose one or the other, right now I’d go bb + ext fx
Yeah but Phil Weeks doesn’t use a modern MPC. He samples and chops everything on his computer, then puts the samples into his modified MPC3000 and S950 to arrange then adds 303, 808, 909 and mixes it down on the O1D and records long 2 track takes on his computer and edits them down into songs ready for mastering.
I’d rather sample directly with the sampler and I don’t have all that gear. I’m just interested in having one box that I can mess around with, sample into, sequence tracks (internally) to get to the 2 track stage.
Also I’ve previously had a MPC 4000 and 1000 before and I liked them, really liked the 1000. With the new MPCs I just couldn’t work with their UI. The colours and fonts are jarring for me.
Yeah I won’t use the classic SP workflow much. I’d probably only resample to create more new samples and perhaps some drum loops. Mostly I use pattern mode.
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Yeah I know how he works. It is easily done on the new MPCs as well. I sample the same way - play records while Audacity is running and just make a long recording of things I like on some records, and then sample into the MPC. With the new MPCs you can just import via USB. I have the old ones too. Never changed my workflow on the new ones much.
But if you don’t like I get it. Its just the sound of guys like Weeks.
For me the sound of Weeks is the S950 and MPC3000 filters. I sold my S950 years ago and I can’t afford either anymore… also I don’t have the patience for the workflow of old gear any more.
Eh,The guy is a master sampler and arranger and that defines him more than using a specific model of MPC. He would make amazing tracks with the new Live. Plus the 3000 emulation on it works well on the drums.
Anyway to answer your question, Id go 404. It has that raw sampling house vibe on it. Just not going to sequence that well. Incredibly fun to make quick 2 track house beats with it though.
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I’ve had a few sps and an old and new mpc. Don’t have a blackbox but made a small modular with the bitbox
I think you could make the type of music those artists make with a 404, blackbox or live but i guess its which you click best with.
Which ever you pick you’ll probably think the other could be a better option 
I see you mentioning filters, maybe the pioneer sp16? I haven’t tried one but few friends use them for house and love them
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Does this comment apply to the entering melody only, or both melody and drums ? I’d anticipate entering melody and bass via keyboard like you, but entering drum basics (kick snare hat) step-style on the screen.
You need a passive stylus to make it less awful.
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Thanks yep already have the new 404 which I like, but exactly that, second guessing! I had an SP16 when they first came out. Didn’t click with it.
I’ll just carry on with the 404 for now and see what happens.
Thanks all.
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Early days, man. Who knows what Roland has in store for us?
While I know you dismissed them, I’m finding Loopy Pro and Serato Sample pair fantastically with the SP. Could be worth exploring more if you already own both.
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Thanks @DimensionsTomorrow. Exactly, who knows how the new SP will develop. I love the SP as it is. This thread is just classic grass is greener GAS… But maybe useful for others who are considering both. The thing that draws me to the BB is independent track lengths. But I can do that with work arounds and resampling on the SP. Saying that, if money were no object, I would have an SP, MPC X, BB and a DT… and flit between them all probably getting nothing done! 
EDIT: Yep I intend to use Loopy Pro as fodder. I don’t have Serato Sample.
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