Worth investing in I think (particularly because it’s not expensive). It’s one of the best samplers I’ve ever used, mainly because you can quickly get all your samples into the same key. It’s like the secret weapon for getting different material to gel together quickly. I love it. Better than the MPC, IMHO, and I’m also from an MPC background. I’ll definitely be using it in conjunction with the SP for beat battles and stuff.
I recently discovered that Cookin’ Soul has the same workflow using it.
Wow the pitch shifting on Serato sounds amazing from Accurate Beats video. I’ve made a rule though only to use SP and iPad to sample from. Doesn’t look like there is anything close on iOS.
My comments on the touchscreen specifically refers to entering in the piano roll.
Try entering in a 256 step sequence of complex chords on the BlackBox (5+ notes per chord spread over 1-3 octaves), then do that over 10-20 sequences, then go thru and nudge them all off grid for a more human feel and you will experience what I’ve experienced. A stylus helps, but not enough to constantly have to hold a stylus while programming. For me it kills the mood.
The Op sounds like nothing will satisfy, it sounds like he’s searching for the unicorn of music production boxes - the ‘perfect’ box that does everything and does it all perfectly. It has never existed and never will. All gear has strengths and weaknesses.
A talented producer could learn and use any of them and make great music that people would want to listen to, sometimes you have to take the bad with the good. Such is life.
Bummer. Yeah, I don’t know of anything that does what Serato Sample does. It blew my mind when I first got it. It takes a lot of the annoying work out of sampling, so you can focus on the arrangements.
It can’t handle everything. For instance, if you have samples that are in major and minor keys or in really different keys (in terms of semitones), it’s still hard to get them to gel, but those samples weren’t meant to work together in the first place (musically). For the majority of stuff though, it works really well.
The beauty of the SP404mkii is that it’s one cable to get anything from your computer or iPad into the SP, so really easy to incorporate the strengths of programs like Serato or Loopy Pro. Basically, instead of trying to do everything in one box, make use of these other great tools that do one thing really well, and use the SP to arrange that stuff and turn into something else with the effects.
Am I incorrect in thinking you are searching for the perfect box? Honest question, no offense meant.
The Sp mk2 is great. The BB is great. Modern MPC’s are super powerful. Logic on the Mac will push out bangers. The Octa is awesome. The Digitakt alone will push out killer music. Add a Digitone to it and it crazy nuts.
Not using a small, 4 inch square, poorly responsive touchscreen that lacks decent multitouch, and is missing basic piano roll editing features like copy/paste, section selection, easy nudging, etc.
You of course may find the experience easy and pleasant on your BlackBox, everyone needs and expectations are different. For me, compared to any basic DAW, tablet app, or even a modern MPC, the BB is far behind in usability. Which is why I don’t enter in the piano roll that way. I either play in live, or create midi files on more capable gear.
All depending on preference. For my needs, the blackbox misses nothing essential. In my personal experience, when nothing out there fits your idea of what you need, you got some soul searching to do. Which arguable can be done by trying new stuff until you start to learn what really matters to you, though.
No, just the box that clicks with me, which the new SP does. It’s not perfect, it doesn’t do absolutely everything I want, but I like it a lot.
This thread is just grass is greener GAS based on some features I like on the BB.
You know what it’s like, you see something on YouTube and it gets you second guessing.
Besides isn’t ‘unicorn’ talk the bread and butter of forums like this?
EDIT:
I have always been interested in the new MPCs, they look great, but my brain is really sensitive to UIs and I could never work with those colours and fonts and layout. I’ve been using Logic since 1998 and although it offers unlimited potential, I’m just totally bored of using it and using a computer. Octa I tried 3 times. It fried my brain and doing simple sampling was a chore. I’d love DT if it supported stereo samples. That’s a fundamental need for me.
Got you. I don’t own a Black box so I’ve got no opinion on it other than it seems cool. I guess my thing was that what you’re describing is so different from how I make music that I was having a hard time thinking of a less painless way of doing it. I just make very simple hip-hop beats. My fault for veering off topic.
I got the bitbox because didn’t like the look of the blackbox sequencer but if I ever want to get rid of the bitbox I suspect I’ll replace it with the blackbox
Piano roll on the blackbox is fine, once you’ve learned to operate the knobs to navigate around. Overall, the bbox is taking way more heat for its sequencer than it deserves. It’s a great and quite different approach to sequencing and song writing than most of the mutated xox-boxes out there.
I am glad this topic already exists! I am also considering the purchase of either of these two machines, although God knows when the SP will be available on this corner of the planet ( Poland specifically I am interested in using them as non-linear multitrack recorders for my synths. The SP404 looks like it would be a pleasure to touch but may end up sounding a bit too gritty. On the other hand the BlackBox seems to have pristine audio quality, but seems a lot more fiddly to use. What is the opinion of other users? I am wondering which of the two would be more conductive to, let’s say, tightly structured IDM like tunes?
The SP404 wouldn’t do too well as multitrack recorder I’d say. You have line inputs and a mic/guitar input and you can rec to only one pad at a time. So multitracking is not an option atm. Also note that getting perfect loops into the SP404 is not exactly trivial, Roland have added a function (“end snap” I think it’s called) to improve this with their last update, though it is rather rudimentary (it’ll snap the end point to the end of the bar closest to where you ended your recording). That currently only works at recording (unless I’m missing something).
Don’t get me wrong, I really love my SP404, but I don’t think it makes a great multitrack recorder - to me it’s more a sampling instrument.
I don’t have experience with the Blackbox but just by specs alone I’d say it’s better suited to what you seem to be looking for.
I’m not sure about multitrack-recording on the blackbox, but “fiddly” is not the adjective I would use for it anyway. IMO that was the most handy quantized recorder I’ve tried (beside daws but that doesnt count), main downside was that I found it only good at recording, and really meh for the rest
I mean, not objectively meh, but for its price point it suffers a lot from comparison.
I don’t think I’d choose an SP404 for that. DAW would be my top choice probably, but an MPC might work. Loopy Pro on the iPad could work too if you are into looping audio. I don’t know the OT well enough to comment. At any rate, I’d personally choose something with a step sequencer or at least a clear visual setup for “tightly structured” arrangements.
I am interested in using them as non-linear multitrack recorders for my synths. The SP404 looks like it would be a pleasure to touch but may end up sounding a bit too gritty. On the other hand the BlackBox seems to have pristine audio quality, but seems a lot more fiddly to use. What is the opinion of other users? I am wondering which of the two would be more conductive to, let’s say, tightly structured IDM like tunes? 