This is exactly what I was saying too. JES was saying people generalize from other tools and I was agreeing. Some pads are velocity sensitive hence people ask about velocity sensitive pads on the hapax. Steps sequencers have not had them hence people dont ask for velocity sensitive buttons on the cirklon.
2 Likes
Iād love to have seen velocity sensitive pads. It looks very playable (Iām hoping it is!) and I think velocity sensitivity just adds more expression. Iāve got my LPP to use for this, but would love to have been able to simplify my setup if the HAPAX did it.
I actually prefer not having velocity sensitive pads on the sequencer itself ( I like more precise control like how squarp have done it with 16 different levels of velocity depending on the pad you use), and getting a seperate controller if I want to play more expressively. I also doubt that 128 pads in that amount of space could give you any reliable and precise expressive control.
4 Likes
Yeah, the space may indeed be an issue. But at the end of the day it doesnāt have velocity sensitivity and thatās cool - Iāve still ordered it and Iām happy looking forward to June.
100%
Iāve not seen any device with these size pads with RGB have velocity/pressure sensitivityā¦
I love loopop , but listing something as a āconā (for oxi) , is only reasonable IF you know its technically feasibleā¦ and other products do it similarly.
sure, list it as a con IF you are prepared to have a 16x8 grid the size of two mini launchpadsā¦ and the extra displays/encodersā¦
(though donāt then go on to say, how great it is that is so small/portable 
)
otherwise, why not just āwishā it was a full MPE compatible surface?
of course as a reviewer, you also do need to find something to āwish it didā ā¦ you cannot say anything is perfect ā¦
I love the line from Fraiser :
Frasier: āThink about it, Niles. Whatās the one thing better than an exquisite meal? An exquisite meal, with one tiny flaw we can pick at all night.ā
Niles: āAh, of course, to impossible standards.ā (raise their glasses)
6 Likes
Dunno. Maybe thatās expecting too much of his audience ? Seems to quite reasonable of him to say āIf youāre looking for touch sensitive pads, look elsewhereā rather than assuming his audience will work out for themselves that itās a complete no-no because of technical limitations ?
EDIT: I wouldnāt have known without reading this thread. I am still a newb to all this. Maybe loopop has other people like me in his audience ?
1 Like
no, Im saying loopop should know (*) ā¦ not his audience.
Ziv has an excellent knowledge of the marketplaceā¦ he knows whats available and whats not.
soā¦ I donāt think you can list a āconā on a product, when no alternative exists with that featureā¦ because there is probably a good reason for it
for sure, Id say, in this case its likely an oversightā¦ heās seen other products with pressure pads, but he just didnāt connect the dots, that its not in this package size.
the issue is raising an expectation (in as you say an audience that does not know) of something thats probably not feasibleā¦ worst still he likely now has to repeat this same āconā on the Hapax, just to be fair/balanced to the Oxi ā¦ so it becomes a repeated āmythical featureā
(*) should is over kill hereā¦ its perfectly reasonable that he might overstate or not think about this aspect, definitely not a dig at Zivā¦ Im sure he just thought, wouldnāt it be cool if these were pressure sensitiveā¦
1 Like
Thing is, in OXI R&D was made regarding touch sensitive pads to be added. However, the added cost plus further R&D was something only could have made sense with a goal we didnāt met (R&D is usually not taken into account, please do), specially being our first product. Well stablished companies could probably afford that extra time + costs, thatās also important to differentiate.
Technically yes, it was totally doable from the tests we made, even with the current thickness (1.5cm) and pad size. Itād have needed a lot of time to fully tune in and rework the hardware, so the shipping timeline would have been imposible to meet (we actually meet it, shipped first units on late 2021 yay!).
Zivās review is kind of unfortunate in some aspects, listing pressure sensitive as con is one, knowing that yes, technically it was possible, but after 2 and half years of development you want to meet ends and that was a path full of obstacles to take at that point, this is something that people without experience in hardware development usually ignore.
We discussed internally that thereās enough in OXI One to more than justify its price tag (specially today and the upcoming 1.1 update that could be named 2.0 honestly).
8 Likes
I want to clarify that I donāt care about velocity sensitive pads, it would have been nice to have them and Iād expected because Iām ignorant and I wasnāt aware of the technical limitations.
Iāve just pointed out that itās normal if people doesnāt complain about buttons on the cirklon not being p. sensitive.
And I agree with you about people generalize from other tools and I didnāt like the ron vidā¦2h complaining about 1 single feature missing.
I didnāt mean to be argumentative : )
cool, interesting too knowā¦
I guess, other smaller manufactures are under same constraints, need to get things out the door to recoup r&d costā¦ but perhaps means the bigger names e.g. Akai/Roland may do something ā¦ assuming they believe the market wants it, and is willing to pay for it
as you say, things like the Oxi One and Hapax, do so much anywayā¦ and are primarily focused on sequencing rather than being your primary playing surface.
whilst I really like the Hapax Live mode, and the pad feel, and its cool for standalone modeā¦
I still like to connect a keyboard or Eras Touch to it, if I want to really āplayā something in.
ā¦ and i think thats totally to be expected.
3 Likes
Wow. Didnāt expect it to go this direction. A few things: I donāt have my Hapax yet, but the Linnstrument has small pads and velocity sensitivity.
Even though it is theoretically possible, the Linnstrument costs more than the Hapax. It has no screen and the software is much narrower in terms of what it does. Draw your own conclusions there.
People keep asking Roger Linn for launchpad like functionality and his answer is ānoā because thatās not the point of the Linnstrument. Similar looking things can have different purposes.
I donāt think itās an issue of whose ideas are reasonable or not.
āSequencerā is not a stabilized instrument; the relation between gesture and sound making is arbitrary and varies depending on the tradition of sequencing that you bring to the Hapax.
The āpurposeā of the pads is a question that cannot be answered in a way that works for everyone. What makes it confusing is that many of the new sequencers draw from multiple traditions.
Finger drumming takes you in one direction, tracker/step sequencer and p-locking a second, and MIDI recording and looping a third. All of them have yielded great music but as of yet there isnāt a single hardware device that serves them all equally well.
Hapax wonāt be that device.
4 Likes
Re dynamics on pads, personally I think it can be a hindrance at times especially on small pads, where the usable range is likely to be less than ideal.
Far better IMHO for user to add a proper pad controller, which they can choose to suit their needs and playing style.
5 Likes
Why do you think OXI exists? We are musicians and felt that stablished manufactures are sleeping on golden cow products giving minimal to none significant software updates. The most interesting and fresh tools lately are coming from small or single person companies.
Donāt completely agree here. In our perspective the sequencer can also become your main playing surface as long as thereāre enough tools that allow to express yourself and gain muscle memory / get to know the instrument that itās just the intermediary between you and your instruments. When expressiveness as in velocity/aftertouch can be automated in many different ways the boundary gets even thinner.
However, IMHO, expressiveness is more than those two parameters, and definitely pressure sensitivity is not the panacea to make an instrument more expressive, it takes a good player and a very well designed synth behind it. I personally wouldnāt take advantage of it, I much rather have more tools to get quick ideas flowing. I value performability and immediacy.
Tech and manufacturing process behind Linnstrument is on another level, not a fair comparison at all.
Definitely agree. We are aiming to that but itās a rather hard task. We have the foundation for it though, by having interchangeable modes that we plan to expand by adding new ones. Iāve been thinking lately on a mode specifically for recording/looping from external MIDI and then perform over it, that could be fun 
5 Likes
Id say the linnstrument pads are near 4 times the size of the hapax pads (?)
very much soā¦
I love the Push2 interface BUT I really dislike the padsā¦
sure they are great for a finger drumming bashing away at them, but for subtle melodic playing 
the Hapax are a nice balanceā¦ good for melodic, entering notesā¦ but some bashers might consider them a little soft.
so yeah, generally there is no ideal playing surface, depends what you want to play and how.
also in the MPE area we have seen some cheaper interfaces, and whilst they tick the box of expressive axises , they donāt feel very good to actually playā¦
CAN becomeā¦ but not all want/need this
we also need specialise playing surfaces,
in the same way we have specialised sequencersā¦ that are not āgroove boxesā.
there are markets for all of these thingsā¦ be in all-in-one, or more focused products.
this is solely personal opinion ā¦ as someone into expressive controllers etc.
I personally, prefer the control surface to be closer to the sound engine ā¦ because then it can be less restricted by things like midi/latencyā¦ and also can be played standalone (or recorded as audio)
Im really glad that Squarp with HAPAX is introducing proper MPE support, this is the first time we will have an effective dawless solution that allows per note editingā¦ this is something many of us have been waiting for, for quite a while.
BUT I fully recognise, my usage of sequencers is more ālive recordingā and less about programming than perhaps othersā¦ so definitely there will be different use-cases.
2 Likes
Owning both, I can say the Linnstrument āpadsā are nearly 4x(exact measurements below) the Hapax. Not wading into the velocity vs no velocity debate (I always keep velocity sensitivity off on things that have it). Just saying in case people are assuming the Linnstrument 128 is the size of the Hapax or vice-versa. The Hapax buttons are much smaller.
Edit: why did I bother with subjective estimates? The Linnstrument pads are half again as large (Ā½inchĀ² vs Ā¾inchĀ²). In total, due to different spacing between pads, the Linnstrument pad area is ~30% larger (6x12 vs 5x10)
And hereās what that looks like in practice:
8 Likes
That was my point. You canāt expect the Hapax to cost what it costs and be what it is and add velocity sensitivity.
You should do it, and please allow MPE recording.
Wow. Even smaller than I thought. Lookin forward to having it in hand.
1 Like
Thank you for that awesome insights and taking part in that discussion as someone who really knows!
3 Likes
Can anyone with a pyramid or who is pretty knowledgeable on the pyramid and hapax chime in on what we feel like our the main differences.
Looking for a midi sequencer to control a few synths and was eyeing the pyramid for a while but now with the hapax being released and sold out at the moment Iām curious if it might be worth it too just get a pyramid to start off with.
Also considering the korg sq-64 and just wait it out for the hapax to be readily available but would appreciate any advice. Canāt find a comparison thread anywhere.
really, theres way to many to listā¦ but I posted this on another forum for someone that asked if it was worth upgradingā¦
as youāll see, this is NOT a comprehensive listā¦ and was more from āshould I upgradeā,
which I guess you could invert and sayā¦ what do I get for the extra $$$
overallā¦
If I was buying newā¦ Id go for the Hapax, even with the wait, and the extra $
however, if you really donāt think you need/want something so powerful/expensive,
perhaps look for a USED Pyramidā¦ a lot of fans of the Pyramid are wanting to āupgradeā so I reckon youāll get a good dealā¦ and there is no doubt its still one of the best sequencers out there.
7 Likes
I have not used it myself, but I would definitely not get a korg sq-64. I literally donāt know of anyone who bought it and actually likes it. A combination of a lot of strange limitations, bad workflow, and bugs I think are the issues.
4 Likes