I’d just do a few 8-bar variations and sequence those patterns in the SP, and, unless you are doing dramatic change ups, those can be very slight variations for hip hop. All you are looking for is something very slight so that the listener feels like they are hearing the same groove but not getting bored. If other elements are changing in the song though, very minimal drum changes can keep the whole thing sounding consistent.
If you did four slight variations you could switch it up like A-B, A-C, A-B, A-D, and that would cover you for 64 bars. Also, dropping percussion in and out on a separate pattern can also change things up.
It’s working with samples that I’m just starting out with, so I’m not at the stage to have that much control over what I’m doing yet.
I’m just now getting chops together to make it into something. And also playing in drum hits in a very superficial manner. It’s the timing of triggering the chops that I’m struggling to learn.
And that doesn’t even address the arrangement as a whole.
I’m hoping that after another month or two into the Mission Briefs, that I start to get closer to how I produce on the Syntakt and TR8s with variations and muted parts.
I definitely screenshotted what you said so I can reference it though.
That’s good general production advice, not just sampler advice.
No worries. Don’t forget the sequencer in the SP404mkii. I haven’t messed much with the new step sequencer, but just using the regular sequencer you can throw quantization up to 100% for certain elements that you want the timing rock solid, like maybe your kicks and snares and then dial back the quantization a bit for say your high hats, and at the end you could maybe do a few unquantified crashes to emphasize certain parts of the beat and give it a bit looser feel since they’ll be a bit more off grid.
Also, in the SP you can copy patterns, so basically you could copy pattern A and drop out some elements or add elements to make B, C, and D. That will make the process much quicker and because it all variations of pattern A, it won’t jar the listener.
Also think about the arc of the song. A lot of times you’ll want the sparser patterns first, build up to a crescendo with busier stuff in the middle and then bring it back down as you end up the song. So maybe your B and C patterns might be busier than your A pattern and you D pattern might be sparser. The exception might be to add an intro before the A section to really draw the listener in before you settle into a groove.
Obviously it depends on what you are going for, so each track will be different, but just some basic ideas.
On this track, I finished the whole beat and then at the last minute decided to just live record in crashes in on a single take across the whole track wherever I was feeling I wanted an accent. It definitely helped otherwise pretty vanilla drums. The variations on the drums in here are very minimal as well.
I did the intro thing I talked about as well, but mainly that was because it was for a beat battle and I needed to figure out how to shoehorn in one of the samples we had to use that didn’t gel with the rest of the song. I liked the sample and was going for sort of the J-Dilla Lightworks (Raymond Scott) kind of thing which I thought might work with a Doom vocal.
Im trying to use the sequencer, but not being able to control the play head and waiting for the loop to come around is challenging.
And the quantizing is hard because not all the samples I stitched together are the same length, so the beat is really kinda all over the place.
I need to try a different approach using what you said. And also manage the workflow better so I can go back and forth over whatever section I’m working on.
Like do prelim drums to get the samples on beat, then once all the sample are laid in, then go back to do the drums right.
Just live playing the samples is too loose with the timing, and that’s why I’m having so much trouble with the drums, and Im too far along to start over with out me just trashing this beat all together.
Just keep at it man! It took me years to get to a place where my hands could spank on tempo during school/work, but remember the moment you stop practicing it disappears! It’s a different form of exercise, that can be greuling, but it beats running!
Not at all! You can still get funky results from the natural way, it just depends on how tight you personally want your tracks to be. You can sprinkle in an unquantized loop over your quantized drum loop so it has best of both worlds. I personally love this sound, but everyone likes the smell of their own farts.
I don’t think that was possible on the older one’s I played on, but I could be mistaken, or I’m not understanding your question all the way. Do you mean those auto sliced sections? Also very much agree with @DimensionsTomorrow on his A-B - A-D pattern switches recommendation, especially with hip-hop beats.
@DimensionsTomorrow so this is where you’re dropping bangers, eh?! Dope beat man, heard hints of Gangstarr’s “Betrayal” in there!
My advice would be to work in small chunks, preferably 8-bars and then chain those together later to make your final track.
To begin with, I’d suggest having at least a basic drum track to work with. You can start putting your samples over that. If your samples are different lengths, remember with gate mode you can have the sample trigger only while you are holding down the pad, so you might be able to get away with that to keep stuff within the confines of your pattern. Make sure everything is already at the proper BPM before you start laying out your track or it will be a mess. Also make sure the samples you chose don’t have any strange elements in them that will conflict with other stuff.
The SP workflow is VERY quirky if you are used to an MPC or Digitakt or something. It will take a while before it clicks.
Check out some of this dude’s recreations of Madlib beats. I think it really highlights how so much of classic hip tracks is not about being flashy but finding good source material to begin with.
@DimensionsTomorrow so this is where you’re dropping bangers, eh?! Dope beat man, heard hints of Gangstarr’s “Betrayal” in there!
I think there is a way to do achieve what you’re asking with another sampler through MIDI and master/slaving the MPC/SP to something like a DAW or s950 in my case which is what I had a hard time wrapping my head around initially and now when I understand, I have issues with the actual hardware themselves and buttons not responding lmao… life.
Otherwise, I think you’re left to the MPC’s normal velocity/pitch pad playing for finding as close to what you want to get to on those cuts you’re after. I think on MPC 2000xl you could do sections though, but both my memory of my experiences with it and my 2kxl are residing in Valhalla until I can afford to restore her, cost effectively. You have to adjust velocity and volume settings to get chops across the pads, I just don’t remember exactly how, but you can definitely find that info on the mpc forums/ youtube. Think it may have been turning volume all the way down in the sample edit page, then adjusting velocity to max, and then you press your sample pad, click 16 levels button, and set it up for velocity with the full level button active. Could be wrong on a lot of that though, so definitely fact check that part!
Here’s an irrelevant older vid of trying to set up the s950. Probably can get some ideas out of this, but the dude just made dope beats back in the day.
Speaking of SP workflows in more general. I love how the guy is working the volume knob here.
Actually all of his 303 recreations are fantastic for SP workflow ideas. Great uses of bringing loops in-and-out, triggering samples in gate mode, mutes, transitioning to different material. All the bread-and-butter stuff that yielded great beats before all the cheesy YouTube beat repeat stuff.
Mpc have layers that you can edit separately, sp workflow is resampling/the basic sequencer which is creates some workflow challenges when setting up patterns. For the older mpcs it was easy to make a base pattern, make a copy and then make edits and variations, add in mutes and other stuff as well, if I remember right it had ways to edit steps as well in the middle of a pattern like you mentioned
I need to be more deliberate with how I structure the workflow. As much as I would like to just jam and flow with chopping and resampling, I see how you have to have a game plan and structure, or it will all get away from you.
Here’s a little mixtape I cranked out over the long weekend. I watched a bunch of old movies and had to steal some clips. Decided to run with a film noir theme. Peace.
