I thought the Deepmind 12 was kind of interesting, but then… it isnt really a Behringer synth is it? Not really.
Then the Neutron, same deal, very interesting, not really a Beringer product.
I wouldnt buy either of them personally.
Then the run of cheap clones of old synths. This came with some dick moves by Behringer. Not that it matters, their goal is to make money.
I wouldnt buy any of the cheap clones either.
I dont get the clones thing personally, I mean for not much more money, you can get an excellent synth. At least in my country of residence at the current prices.
Is it a good or bad thing? Ppfff who really cares? Theres nothing can be dont about it either way.
Its synthesizers… a tiny niche pocket in a tiny section of a market that is tiny.
We forget that sometimes.
All other stuff aside and looking at it from purely a product point of view, I would not be interested in Behringer clones anyway, they are ok at best even for the price, mediocre at worst.
There are much better clones out there, and if you want a clone then it must sound exact or what is the point?
Other considerations might be long term support, availability of spare parts, modern features which don’t impact sound but add improved functionality (for example more memory, midi cc) are lacking.
So, given their huge financial resources and the talent they bought up I think their clones could have been much much better and still at the same price point, if none of this bothers you or make you question why, then enjoy your Behringer synths.
I find it surprising that people keep going back to the point of ‘oh but other companies clone too’ When that’s not the main issue with behringer… Also I just wanted to make a point about the law vs ethics, there isn’t necessarily an absolute relationship between the two. I could open a clothing business that uses sweatshop labour in India / China and while I could do this while operating perfectly within UK law, I don’t think what I’d be doing could be described as ethical…
There has been many complaints about working conditions by the workers at Behringer’s factories in China, Just because they use Chinese labour doesn’t mean that they’re an unethical company but when they use Chinese labour so they can get away with exploiting human beings, I think this puts Behringer’s morals into question.
My other issue with Behringer is that they’re stunting innovation within the synth market because they’re taking money that could have been the difference between a small company with a unique product making it or not… I bring this product up non stop on forums as it’s in my eyes a great example of this; the Motas-6 deserves to be up there with the greatest synths ever made which is truly innovative in it’s design and yet less than 100 of these have been sold in the years since it’s release… If Behringer hadn’t been crowding the market with synth after synth that flood peoples newsfeed, I’m sure the Motas would have had more of a chance and maybe the designer of the Motas would have had the incentive to design further products.
I see a future where Behringer have assimilated all other synth designers / manufacturers and we’re left with nothing but buggy and uninspiring synths to chose from haha…
I might have been interested in Behringer’s products if they’d made their own designs with modern features such as deep midi implementation / patch storage or even if they just took copied old synths and then took them to the next level but they don’t… They don’t even pull off making them sound like the things they’re supposed to sound like so I really don’t see the point in them. There’s not a single one of their clones that sounds as good or better than the original.
I’m happy to say that I have a guy rebuilding a Mono/Poly for me. It’s not cheap.
Apart from being the original Korg, there’s also the satisfaction that I’m supporting someone who can do this work and it encourages people like him to keep doing what they do.
Enjoy! I had an old mono/poly. Monster of a synth. I hardly ever used it though. Sold it to a collector and donated the money to the local fire brigade.
Personally I don’t own any Behringer product. I did buy a Behringer audio interface earlier this year but sent it back, not because there was anything wrong with it I just realised that I did not actually need it. However, I can see that many people do buy Behringer products and, based on Thomann reviews, customer satisfaction is equal to that for Elektron products.
I am not sure how you can comment on the sound/quality of Behinger clones if you have never personally tried them!
Behringer is a company and like any company their prime objective is to make money and they have an obligation to do this because people depend on them for their wages.
Bad behaviour, sorry but I don’t see what is so bad about Behringer’s behaviour when compared to many other companies out there. Some people are portraying Uli as some sort of demon, which is a trifle ridiculous in my opinion.
Oh, and I own Yamaha, Korg, Roland and NI boxes which have “made in China” stamped on them.
I wonder how many Behringer naysayers are typing replies on Apple computers? There is a growing body of information about some of their dodgy business practises that would no doubt put Behringer in the minor leagues. Ultimately success breeds both contempt and arrogance, so no doubt truth on both sides of the fence.
Some of their clones are actually good synthesisers on their own merits and deserving of a marketplace imho. I can wholeheartedly recommend the Pro-1 and reckon both its sound and interface puts it over the Toraiz version, though the RD8 while sounding great is botched on the firmware and Filter routing front. The Model D is another win and a valid purchase, while I see the Crave as a thinly veiled M32 rip off. Personal experience.
For me, living in a metaphorical glass house using an Apple computer and buying foods & drinks in plastic containers on occasion, I choose to quietly pick the things I want, some of which include Behringers, for nothing better being on the market with that compact footprint. Definite room for improvement on the originality front though, and low expectations for such. I guess ultimately I am saying it’s more refreshing to read peoples judgements based on personal experiences with the gear, rather than the politics and ethical judgements.
You can really tell GS has had a recent ban on politics and brand bashing, some people are just not happy unless they are projecting.
It would be great if there was forum software that stopped users from posting the same opinions over and over and over…, there was a serial moaner elsewhere who complained about the same thing in so many threads that new users thought there was a widespread problem when in reality it was the same person going on like a stuck record.
Because being very familiar with the originals I can hear if they sound wrong from the demos. As I said many times before though some of them do better than others.
If I knew of another large company reverse engineering the product of a smaller company rather than just buying their chips then I’d have a problem with that too. (Specifically referencing Curtis here)
If I heard of another synth company bullying an individual I’d have a problem with that too.
But again, there is a long list of other stuff too, if you have not read up on it then do so if you are so interested.
“made in China” Irrelevant WRT to anything I have said.
Also I’m sure people complaining about behringers business practises are aware of other companies with bad business practises but this being a music forum, we choose to keep things relevant by talking about music relevant companies.
I can’t think of any company that comes close to the things behringer has done.
People need to understand that there’s good factories and bad factories in China, behringers factories have been subject to investigation because of reports directly from people working there.
WRT to discussing Behringer on synth forums - why do some people feel that criticism isn’t allowed or valid, freedom of expression, personal choice and everything else that has been discussed isn’t ‘projecting’ it is just a discussion, no need to get emotional or feel personally attacked about it.
As long as the discussion is civil and doesn’t involve ad hominem attacks I don’t see any problem.
That’s probably a wise decision. Having had first-hand experience of their recruitment process, I’d advise proceeding with caution. I met some really talented and enthusiastic people there but I also got the distinct impression that the culture was potentially toxic.
I am sorry but how can you accuse Behringer of “stealing” when they are legally allowed to make replicas of the CEM3340 because the patents have expired? Stealing is an illegal activity.
You can’t even really complain that it is unethical because, unlike doctors, lawyers, priests, financiers etc., as far as I am aware business men are not bound by any ethical code.
The fact that you simply don’t like what Behringer have done and have sympathy for Curtis Electromusic is certainly your entitlement.
Why do you ignore every other point made and just focus in on this?
You’re right that businessmen aren’t obliged to morality but the earth is definitely suffering as a result of the lack of moral code within these business men. There are people who own companies that do what they can to minimise their impact on the earth and in my eyes they deserve respect for this. I have no respect for behringer because why should I? They as a company haven’t done anything to be proud of.
I find it hilarious how you stand up for Behringer like this, what’re you hoping to achieve?
Ok my bad, not stealing just reverse engineering an in production IC rather than buying them, but then using the same part number as the original part - to confuse customers? Or to gain unearned prestige built up over years by the company who actually put the work in and designed the chip?
Why not create a better IC from scratch and call it something else? Well because then you can’t ride the coat tails of the original IC.
But this isn’t the only tell of what kind of company they are, people are free to buy their stuff or not of course, myself I’d be inclined to think that if a company pulls such moves what else are they doing that we don’t know about?
I am not standing up for Behringer’s business practices (or any other company for that matter). I just think that if you want to knock them it is better to be accurate. Possibly their cable tester is a better example of what could be considered as going too far (though again probably legal).
With regard to Behringer’s products, although I don’t own any of their synths , I suspect they perform and sound as well as their peers, particularly in view of their price. So is it not a bit silly to fault the product just because you don’t like the business practice? Surely the answer is to simply not buy them.
I suspect most companies would be proud of the fact that they make money and are still in business and they probably don’t shed too many tears for any competitors which may have fallen by the wayside.
This might have been said already but you need to separate the impact on the music from the fraught world of business ethics. The legitimate competition from big companies like Yamaha, Roland and Korg in the 1980’s which put ARP, Sequential, Oberheim and so on out of business (then bought up their names ouch :() is text book corporate behaviour from the period and positively saintly by today’s standards. But was devastating to the synthesizer industry which was stuck in the dark ages of preset digi and romplers for decades (no offense they have their place but not a quarter of a century’s worth of space).
It’s hard to pity the synthesizer megaliths who sat on these patents for decades producing such wonders as the Roland Juno DS when they could have made the Deepmind 12. However the worry is that Behringer’s production powerhouse will destroy the creative boutique industry, which is where the next Elektron will come from. Behringer’s foray into Eurorack and modular is ominous. The idea of being in a retro analogue loop of clones of clones of clones of the 1980’s is also a terrifying thought and where we might be heading without innovation. Hopefully Elektron will save us with something awesome… unless they’re too busy turning all their old gear black.
For the example of the 303, Roland crashed at the origin (1982 !!!),
let the speculator prevent the musician from having any,
is now releasing it (digitally) at € 369.
Thanks to Behringer I can afford a pure analog clone that sounds hell for 150 €
And I am sure that there will remain customers rich enough and envious
of the original (±2000€!!!) to buy the old or new versions of Roland …
Where is the problem ? After 38 years …
The money saved I invest it in innovative manufacturers such as Elektron.
Genuine question - do you feel as strongly about opamps like the tl072 ?
Or how about Alfa and SSI making chips ?
Or how about the resistors and capacitors all being made in China too? (No judgement on China personally!) You cant build any electronics that are ethically sourced (not just where they are made but the mining and industrial processes). We have to admit that if we like synths we are complicit in damaging the environment and (probably) supporting some unethical employment practices at some point in the supply chain in some country or other…
I think there are loads of reasons to dislike Behringer (for me the main one is suing people who posted on a forum) but I dont think making replica synths or patent-expired chips is one of them for me…
Behringer have made quite a lot of interesting innovative products - they’re also made a lot of copies… it’s easy to vote with your wallet…
