The Clone War - Behringer. Good or Bad?

The Lounge Other Gear
#107

I’m personally not 100% against the idea of Behringer cloning synths that companies are no longer producing but this isn’t only the case… Crave is pretty much a ripoff of the mother 32 and has definitely eaten into Moogs sales of a product they depend on to stay afloat but still… this isn’t at all the point I want to make about why I don’t support Behringer and hope that others wouldn’t either.

Merlinash explained one point perfectly in that what Behringer is doing is a direct threat to the future of innovation of synthesizers as they’re taking money away from small businesses that are essential to the future of innovation.

Another thing is the ethics / attitude of a company… In a sense we shape the future with what we decide to support financially and in supporting Behringer we support a future where businesses can do exactly whatever they want and get away with it so long as it saves the consumer a bit of money. As a separate example you have a clothing company like Primark which exploits underprivileged communities for their own financial gain… Yes it also saves money for those who can’t afford to spend more on clothes but it’d be an outright lie to say that buying from Primark is the only option we have if we’re on a budget (I haven’t bought new clothes in almost 10 years now… I buy everything (apart from socks and underwear) from charity shops / ebay / carboot sales and the same is true for music gear if you’re on a budget)

Another point to keep in mind is that the ethical choice isn’t necessarily black and white as people so often like to make it, Just because all companies do some wrong doesn’t mean that one company that is built upon unethical practise is the same as a company that does a few wrongs because they have no other choice (such as purchasing electrical components)

This discussion will probably go on forever as people tend to latch on to one point made in a post and ignore the rest and as a result things just endlessly go round and round but I personally hope that people would at least be honest about things… I’ve considered buying Behringer products despite my views on them in the past because I’m human and I’m sometimes weak against my wants but I at least try to be honest with myself when I want something that isn’t ideal.

Anyway… I’m not going to post more as I’m just making the same points over and over really… part of me gets sad about the future of small businesses and the loss to the world that their disappearance would bring.

2 Likes
#108

Do you really think a guy who wants to take a moog at the last minute will buy Behringer?
I remain convinced that it is another market.

2 Likes
#109

Actually, Behringer is forcing other synth makers to actually innovate. They can’t put out a 2vco ”innovative” mono synth any more and charge $1000 for it. They need to do something that is actually new and people will buy it.

Behringer is awesome for the consumer. They force other companies to lower their prices and up their quality if they want to stay in business. I only see this as a good thing.

5 Likes
#111

There is enough to worry about without being invested in this IMO.

People that want a higher end or boutique item will buy it. People that just want the basic functionality or close-enough sound will buy a clone. There is space for all of the above.

There’s nothing wrong with B putting out a bunch of clones.

I’ve bought the RD-8, Crave, and TD-3, and had no issues in doing so. They’re great for what they do. I have no interest in owning an original 808 or 303. (though I prefer the TT-303 or Avalon for obvious reasons) I’d buy another RD-8 before I’d ever buy a real 808, and not just due to price. They put some thought into it, and it’s fun to use.

If I want a Dave Smith designed synth, I’m going to buy a DSI/Sequential synth. (like I did with the Rev 2) There aren’t many synths out there that are as good as a real Sequential.

I still think there’s a very good reason for the B-rophets though. Some people would love to have that type of sound, that type of interface, and can’t or won’t buy a P-6, Pro-3, etc. Why shouldn’t they be able to get something to fill that role?

I seriously doubt it will have much, if any, impact on Dave’s sales. I could even see cases for having say an OB-6 from Dave, and the Pro-800 or whatever it’s called together. More poly voices, one outstanding higher-end piece, and another to fill in or take out of the studio, or whatever.

In the world of synths, I would say the more the merrier. Each one will find its audience, and if it doesn’t, there must be a reason for it. Go back to the drawing board, and try again to wow people your way.

1 Like
#112

How so? They can’t compete with Behringer prices/quality on homage or retro so they need to do something different/new.

#113

I don’t think there’s as clear a case for competition as it might appear.

B might be putting a little industry-wide pressure on to make something for a reasonable price, but they aren’t really competing in a 1:1 competitive space IMO.

I doubt someone is going to be deciding directly between a Behringer Pro-One and a Sequential Pro-3 for example. They are largely two separate audiences. Sure there might be a bit of crossover, but most will want one or the other, and some may even want both.

2 Likes
#115

a lot of people, actually. ever since Elektron added the UW engine to the MD, people were screaming for a proper sampler for years. now, did they know it’d be what Elektron actually built? of course not.

#116

Yeah true enough, from my own point of view I do my best to buy stuff that I intend to keep for a long time, and I’d much rather have 1 really good thing than 5 mediocre things, I prefer to buy stuff that can be serviced, and even better if I can do that myself.

I also use a mixture of old and new gear.

5 Likes
#117

Fair point.

#118

This is just the same for any brand of electronic (or not) (instrument) . nothing justify any more thing of this sort. Thats not a reason you (and me) stop lusting and buying. In what a neutron is worst than a black rytm or a new mpc??? The real last thing earth need is… people like us

#119

Seriously, do you think its a china thing??? Doent america do the same?? What about indekt project being patronned by europa money???

1 Like
#120

this.

related: it does crack me up sometimes when you’ll see people who love B gear be like “I love this! it’s all so cheap!” then they’ve got like 10 of 'em. not so cheap once you’re $3k deep with it… or the people with four of the same synth or something.

I mean, whatever… different philosophies and what not. that versus what darenager said above.

4 Likes
#121

Quality over quantity every time for me!

2 Likes
#122

It’s similar to how I got into modular. It’s easier to spend $200-$300 a bunch of times than $2000 once.

2 Likes
#123

We’re only allowed to criticize that which is illegal?

What a weird dictum.

Behringer is a multitude, really.

It’s run by a guy who has a terrible policy of copying products on the market and using seriously aggressive moves on indie companies who can’t afford to fight back and absolutely attacking critics creepily online.

Productswise: the quality isn’t too terrible these days, they employ some good people, I wish they had a Roland Boutique-style collaboration with someone else to produce a higher-end analog with less sacrifices.

Again, it’s a series of tradeoffs, cost only being one of them.

3 Likes
#124

Emphatically, yes.

IDK, vanilla monosynths without any added spice were being glutted up in the market even before B’s clones hit stores.

2 Likes
#125

I really don’t think they’ll destroy the creative boutique industry. Like I said up above, my guess is that the number of people who WOULD have bought boutique stuff, but instead decide to buy Behringer, are a fractional amount. Like, I’ve bought a couple of Behringer guitar pedals, but that’s because I had no intention of spending $100 on a compressor and $100 on a noise suppressor. That’s just silly and wasn’t worth my cash.

I doubt the people buying Chase Bliss, Empress, Eventide, etc. have any inclination of instead buying a Behringer product that is half the price. Same with Moog. I would hazard to guess the overlap of people who were going to buy the Mother 32, then instead decided to get the Crave is a tiny amount.

I think what Behringer is doing is carving out a new market. They also haven’t made a single thing that can compete with an Elektron box, let’s be honest. Eurorack I’m sure will be fine, too. They’re just doing Roland and Moog clones–which is cool and I’m actually considering purchasing them. But if anything, I’m sure once young, impressionable minds get their hands on those cool modulars, they will crave more and they’ll be looking into Befaco, Doepfer, Intellijel and all the rest. In fact, I predict that all sales of all modular units will go up after Behringer drops their stuff.

2 Likes
#126

I’m sure they’ll be fine. If anything, I’m sure small businesses will do better in the long run as more people enter the synthesizer market with cheap Behringer gear. I think small businesses in general have a niche. I always go to my local coffee shops, for instance–even though there are sometimes three Starbucks on the same block. You could argue that that many Starbucks is destroying small businesses, but maybe they just need to build down the street. That being said, local coffee shops always seem to do well in my area. People like supporting them.

I bet 95% of people who buy “small business synthesizers” will continue to do so, even if they also buy Behringer. That’s the kind of market they’re in.

2 Likes
#127

Is this an example of emotional reaction going in a weird direction … ?
You are quoting me like this …

But the full sentece was …

AFAIK the term “focused” doesn’t either mean to suppress other opinions, nor that other opinions are wrong.

BTW … I agree, if business ethics are debatable, they should be criticized as well.

#128

Bad :-1:t6: :-1:t6: :-1:t6: