A few years ago I played Endtroducing for a friend of mine who was born in the late 80s and she said it sounded dated. I was rather miffed in the moment and but I sort of agree when I go back and listen to it, although, I still appreciate it as a groundbreaking work. I would also say the same about Portishead but not Massive Attack, and I’m pretty sure most people here would disagree with me about Dummy, so I might be a bit dumb on that one.
It seems to me that often when music is made that is innovative in the moment or uses new technology etc., that it after a decade or so can fall into that category of datedness, sort of like the polyester clothing of the late 60s or 70s. A lot of music in the 90s that I enjoyed at the time feels a bit dated to me vs. the late 80s while some of the stuff from the early 80s seems greatly more dated than the late 70s.
I saw Kraftwerk this year and the performance did not only feel not dated it struck me as still beyond the times in a perplexing way. Like I was experiencing the past, present and future all at once.
Does anyone have thoughts, feelings or theories on this matter?
When people think it sounds dated, it probably means that it does not sound like what the radios are getting them accustomed to these days.
I think that music trends evolve in partial 30 year cycles: today musicians appear to be revisiting the sound of the 90s, albeit with the technological and cultural context of today. So it won’t sound quite the same and there is always a newish twist but I expect grunge, techno and “hip hot chili rappers” or derivatives thereof to celebrate their comeback this decade. During the 90s, the Doors and the Beatles (60s) had a huge impact, while during the 2000s it was bands like ABBA (70s). It may stem from the fact that teens back then are now gently moving into roles where they can finally decide. The same trends can be observed with clothing fashion (those horrible 90s jeans!).
What jeans do you speak of? Like Jnco poser skater jeans or low rise True Religion? Those I associate with the early 00s but are likely from the late 90s. I’ve been selling 90s clothes since around 2006 and actually find a lot of clothing from much of the 90s, such as GAP, to be timeless staples and what people started referring to as “normcore” several years back.
Yea, I’m a bit conflicted on my current perception of that album. I bought Endtroducing when it came out and even saw him perform sometime after. It was a very boring show though as he just spun whatever and nothing sounded like the record. My thoughts on this regarding specific albums seems to undulate so don’t put too much weight on my malleable opinions as they tend to be rather weak.
Yeah, I think regarding Endtroducing specifically, his choices of sample material (being pretty vintage but largely unfamiliar) make it really hard to place, as the music isn’t clearly from anywhere we can easily know and can’t interpret and a new spin on familiar hooks, as a lot of hip-hop was at the time.
It’s also I think why he never reached the same heights, as the sheer work that went into making it would probably have sent him mad trying to do it again.
But, if you were to listen to Endtroducing with little context or understanding of 90’s hip-hop, trip-hop or sampling culture in general, you’d probably think it sounded pretty dated.
Is not sounding absolutely up to the pop culture minute a problem for some people? It isn’t for me. Aside from listening to anything/everything by my fellow Elektronauts and my local friends I pretty much avoid current music. Not because of any weird hater bullshit, but who has the time to follow it? What’s the incentive to even care? Inclusion in some youth zeitgeist? Not interested.
recording technology reached a certain level of “perfection” (at least relative to prior tech) by the 70s that anything recorded in the last 45 years sounds close enough to current digital recordings (sonically). gear changing from analog to (largely) digital over the 70s, 80s, and 90s had enough leaps that you can generally fix tracks in certain periods. as a DJ, the “datedness” i hear now is pre and post-DAW tracks around the mid-2000s going forward, which is why i work entirely out of the box on my own stuff
Interesting topic!
I love Endtroducing and know it inside out but i’d say it sounds dated. Can’t say specifically why. Maybe just because i know it so well and there’s nothing new in it to explore for me. But maybe it’s also the drums. They sound very chopped (of course they are) and not smooth. I think with electronic music it’s mostly the drums that make it sound like from a specific time.
A lot of Warp style music sounds dated to me as well. Boards Of Canada not so much imo. They never used too many breaky, glitchy drums. Can’t listen to Squarepusher anymore even though i loved it.
I don’t know, maybe it’s just my personal preference that changed over time instead of actual datedness of the music.
I like to think that we look back and choose the good things to bring back from past fads once they are far enough away that we can have a fresh perspective. Like FM synthesis perhaps. But then they go and bring back the high-waisted pants and my theory goes out the window.
The fashion industry so clearly tries to get you to buy all new clothes as often as possible with the baggy->tight type of cycles. Is there a corollary to that in the music industry? Maybe FM sounds objectively terrible (high-waisted pants) but I’m into it because of all the 80’s movies soundtracks soaked with it…
Also interesting is when something makes a comeback because hipsters start wearing bad-looking things ironically, like mustaches.
I fell in love with Kraftwerk after I first saw them at a festival in 2009. I listened to their albums before as preparation, was not intrigued, sounded pretty dated to me. I found the visuals quite dated (especially compared to Massive Attack and Chemical Brothers who played there too). But the music sounded up to date but still weirdly nostalgic, that’s why I really loved it. I listened to them often the following years, but mostly newer live recordings.
Fast forward to 2019. Saw them live with their 3D show at a festival again. Thought I wouldn’t appreciate it after knowing more electronic music now. Loved it so much more than the first time around. I felt like their art has reached a timeless maturity that was nostalgic and futuristic at the same time.
Been listening to their re-mastered classic albums since and not the live albums.
Their topics and music were quite futuristic at the time. No big parts of it are dated. Other parts they‘ve re-invented, like the general sound, way of performing or their 3D show. Or radically re-interpretation of the meaning of radio-activity e.g. That they tried to boil down the essence of everyday minutia in the clearest possible way made and makes their art a kind of definite statement on these aspects of culture. And to experience these now dated visions of a future that has also outlived us is just so fascinating.
I think the loops go on unchanged for too long. The songs feel unfinished by today’s standards. I’m sure that’s because it would take 1/10th the time to program all that these days so we can achieve more with our time. I also agree with your points about the drums, there is something unpolished there that would be easy to fix in a modern DAW.
until mid 90ies u could always tell when something was produced by how the rhythmgroup was made up…after that, it got tricky…
from that point on, u could come up with timeless stuff if u “only” mixed and mashed up the right references with each other, crossed genres to create new breed ones and thought out of the box in an eclectic way…
so ur example of portish heads debut “dummy” is kind of a perfect pick for a “timeless classic”…
since it created totally new but common ground via electrified accoustic vibes, dusty crusty synthish moody soundscapes, some bond theming guitarlick flair and poppish jazzy female lead vocals beyond all gender…so sure, that sounded like it had “fallen OUT of time”…
it’s a big challenge and a great achievement if u can produce stuff that’s timeless, can’t be nailded to a certain date and remains ageless…