Thinking of going back in the box

The Lounge General Discussion
#392

People like great tracks. Doesn’t matter how they were made. Are you going to scramble into every club and tell people you made this banger with all hardware? No. The song will always stand alone and speak for itself. I am not sure why anyone would not be interested in ITB tunes since the majority of releases are made that way.

As for the Ableton combo, I like the Novation Launchpad mini. It is small and automaps to Ableton so it takes zero effort. It has some drum pads, keys and knobs. I think I paid $90 for it. I have owned a Push 2 twice and it’s way too big and expensive for what it does, imo. I tried to get on with it, but it just wasn’t for me.

3 Likes
#393

My only caution about moving to the box is whether you want to be able to go back to old work, and indeed old workflows.

I’m in my 40s. It seems like ten seconds ago that I was in my 20s.

Things I did on hardware in my 20s are there as if they were made yesterday. An mc303 is unchanged, and the backups over sysex restore just fine. I’m confident that any backup of the CF card in an OT, or the SD card in an M8, will work fine on any working unit in 2043.

By contrast, things I sweated over lovingly in Cubase with VST instruments and effects in my 20s are now completely inaccessible. The MIDI patterns are there, and so are vocal takes as wavs. But almost everything else is gone: the perfect synth settings, sampler edits, sound design, effects and compressor settings, much of it lovingly automated… they are all effectively gone forever, because they’re all done in plugins that no longer exist to buy or download, and certainly don’t exist in forms that can run on a modern computer. I mean things like… Groove Agent 1, some Roland orchestra thing, an ancient weird organ thing, DiscoDSP ThrillMe, random built in plugins, niche things I found for free, and more. Maybe if I had only used Waves plugins that stuck around forever things would be different, but that’s no fun, and anyway I have no time machine to predict those things. Maybe if I’d been really discplined about printing stems to wav I’d be fine, but I wouldn’t be able to modify any single thing about any one of them. I have full rendered tunes, that’s all. That’s not all I made tho. Think of all your fun noodles that you want to return to.

In addition to this problem - losing my archive, really - I’m currently not updating MacOS because my Ableton 9 and NI instruments bought only a few yrs ago would need upgrading, at very huge cost. My Moog MG1, Jupiter 4, my old hardware compressor, my early 2000s eurorack, do not present this problem. I just switch them on and I can use them.

So, for me, hardware is forever, plugins - I am very aware now - are only for now.

5 Likes
#394

I’m in my 40s now and I thank my 20s self for being fixated on using only self contained software systems like Reason or Ableton with only stock devices. Old projects still work as they used to and I’m happy for that.
I was never a fan of VST plugs and now, when I open old, self contained projects, I understand why.

My advice, if you work ITB, keep it simple, choose one DAW, stick to build in devices only and carefully maintain and backup your sample library.

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#395

Basically ALWAYS ALWAYS run everything out as individual stems and a mix master. THE END

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#396

Second the two comments above.

.wavs bro.

.wavs

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#397

I probably use fewer plugins than most, and Valhalla DSP has done a great job of both staying in business and keeping things updated. But I still don’t think I’d give up 3rd party VSTs for longevity. I have a bunch of stuff from a decade ago that doesn’t work because either the Virus VST is abandonware, various free VSTs & AUs got lost in Apple’s upgrade shuffle or sample names and locations changed out from under me.

I printed everything to a lossless 2-track mix down, so I still have material that I could remix or chop up in the Octatrack. If I was feeling better about my music I might print every single track so I’ve got stems. At this point in my artistic life I’m just happy that the mere thought of opening old projects doesn’t send me into catatonic embarrassment. Actually opening them might though.

I do appreciate working 100% within Ableton. I’ve been doing that a lot recently as a way to get to know Live 11. If I go ITB for the album I might release this year then I’ll probably incorporate Pigments, Valhalla plugs and whatever Audio Damage stuff I bought.

1 Like
#398

Living in a box,living in a cardboard box………

#399

Perhaps for people out hustling and marketing their stuff enough to get it into clubs this is true, but for people that make music for fun as a hobby by themselves, my experience is that people in general aren’t interested in listening to random people’s stuff. There’s just too much content out there. But, if you are part of a gear community like this, people are often genuinely interested to hear what you’ve made on a certain device. So I stand by my opinion that if you are someone just doing it for fun, and want people to listen to your stuff, you’ll probably have an easier time if you are part of a gear community.

I agree that for successful artists it doesn’t matter. Also, if you are a professional musician making music for film and TV, you’d be crazy not to be in the box.

I use both hardware and the DAW, so I don’t really care what people use.

I will also add this for people thinking of going in the box. If you think it will save you money, think again. I thought that might be the case when I experimented with it, but, especially when you are starting out, it’s easy to get tempted to buy a bunch of stuff, because you don’t know what you actually need.

3 Likes
#400

All of this :100:

If music is your job, work smarter, not harder.

If music is your hobby, do what ya like. Have fun.

DAW, no DAW, hybrid - whatever :metal:t4:

But please people stop claiming some type of creative musical disability because you have to “stare at a screen all day for work”

We’re all staring at a screen right now, at this very moment :wink:

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#401

Serious first world problems. Also my mouse clicking finger has a major callus.

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#402

Don’t know the full context of the quote you’re tossing out, but still - some food for thought on the ‘staring at a screen’ idea in general

I have to stare at a screen all day for work. The dangers of larger blue light screens, and phones of course, in the short time we’ve been enamored with them as a society have been pretty well documented. Aside from this, screens simply are exhausting. My job also leaves me exposed to RSI and other physical issues, which have already affected my health. I love my job… the point I’m headed towards is that these issues are realities. For people in this situation, getting away from the screen or computer may be preventing a physical disability rather than addressing a creative one, as is the case for me (though I do goof in the box and out). I’ll continue to work with screens and hardware both, but being able to establish some sort of workflow that balances the physical disruption is HUGE.

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#403

Musical inspirations vary and musical creativity takes all kinds fin.

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#404

Well put :pray:

#405

Which box are you all going back into? Box of wine?
If it’s box of wine, I might be down.

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#406

box of eggnog over here

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#407

Well that’s rich!

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#408

Cream, get the money, dolla-dolla bills y’all.

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#409

Nog rules everything around me (@captain8) …

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#410

I’m going back into a box of self imposed contradictions that can both limit and drown me in possibilities

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#411

+1

I almost stopped making music before going OTB, because staring at Ableton Live felt like working after a long day sitting at the computer.

Going DAWless just was a new beginning for me.

I’m aware that, of course, external gear will never be as powerful as plug-ins, but I can live with that as long as I just enjoy playing
on my hardware.

1 Like