Thoughts on the future for the MD?

Elektron Gear Machinedrum
#1

Kind of a weird question here for which there are no real answers, short of clairvoyance. But I’m curious if some will entertain me with their opinions.

What do you think the future looks like for the MD in terms of resale value and it’s place in the market vis a vis current and potential future elektron machines?

While I have always loved it, my MD UW hasn’t exactly been a great…investment. I bought it new in early '08 for $1700. A couple years later I was running out of space and was thrilled to see the +drive option. Around that time an new OS ( the current 1.63) was released and for some reason updating it bricked my machine. I could go back a couple of OS’s and get it to work, but 1.63 just wouldn’t take. And I needed 1.63 to install the + drive. So after some consideration, I shipped it off to get it fixed, updated, and the + Drive installed. It was $350 for the repair and $390 for the + drive.

So…I’m in $2440 for a machine that you can currently buy new (and with nicer encoder knobs) for $1500. Please understand that I’m not bitching about this, just stating the facts. I blame no one - certainly not Elektron - and I’m not even upset or bitter about it. This stuff just happens. I’ve also been on the opposite side of this equation, like purchasing a guitar that I ultimately never bonded with, snapping the neck, and years later selling for considerably more than I paid for it.

But I do feel some trepidation about my next move. As a few of my recent posts have indicated, I’m gearing up for my next purchase - An A4 - and am really kind of jonesing for the dark trinity in general. And in this mix I have my MD, which despite my attachment to it, I’m confident wouldn’t be missed at all with an A4 and AR combo. Add the OT and it’d be no contest…

But I’d probably get….$900 for it? It’s in perfect shape, maybe a tad more. Seems it’s not currently in high demand.

So my question: from an investment perspective, what do you think the future holds for this machine? It’s already a classic, that’s for sure. But unless it were to be discontinued by Elektron, there’s zero chance of it gaining any value. And as Elektron release more cool stuff, perhaps it’s losing value and relavance? It seems unlikely that there will be more OS updates for the MD, but who knows for sure.

I dunno, I’m rambling. Also on my mind is the fear that just as I purchase the A4, the price will come down or they’ll release a mark II with individual outs or something. Back to clairvoyance, nothing’s gonna help me there though, short of spying on Elektron HQ :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: !

Humor me with your thoughts?

#2

The MD will not get an os update. Fairly sure they’ve moved on to bigger and better systems.

I would never look at something like this as an investment - especially if it was bought new. With a few exceptions, have things that fetch high used prices these days actually appreciated in value? Gear has always been expensive especially when it first comes out.

Only thing I guess is to make it work for you - if you can make money with it, that might help your uneasiness.

Still if you just look at it as fun / art / whatever then that doesn’t really gel with the ‘investment’ mentality.

As for the A4 - seems like a decent enough machine, low number of complaints, good used prices, that is good.

Personally I am super slow on buying new gear and I’ll probably give it a few more years see how it plays out - not to mention I almost decide on gear exclusively out of circumstance - if I find an insane deal I’ll try something new. The MD though is an exception, as I had a sound design gig at the time that gave me the excuse to finally get something new.

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#3

I would say: Take it as it is and keep the MD! Because it is the best and most complete Drummachine Elektron ever made! You pretty much have everything on this silver box that you need.

I sold mine back in the days to get the Dark Trinity you spoke from. And guess what?? Im absolutely disappointed with the AR on the drumside to be honest. It is not nearly capable of the things the MD can do. You have no flexible LFOs, you have no EQ per Track and the Pads are crap! The Bassdrum is tuned way too deep to be noticeable on regular Hifi-Systems and the machines that were promised almost a year earlier are still not there - thanks to the Overbridge.

So i would say: Grab an A4, it really is worth it no matter what you pay for because THIS is a really good analog machine they built. And it works. And let the MD stay for your Drums pleasure. OT can be added to this as well but is rather optional, depends on how capable you are in terms of controlling all those 3 machines at once. But dont even think about buying the AR right now to replace your MD if you are used to what you can do with it. You will go a step back, that is what i promise you!!

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#4

Interesting thoughts, much appreciated. True - I never did/do look at gear purchases as investments, perhaps that was a poor choice of words. However, I am beginning to realize I should be more strategic about letting gear go if I’m not using, digital gear in particular. For example, I just sold my MOTU HD896 that I originally bought for over 1K for $200. And I hadn’t used it for probably 5 years or more - that was stupid for sure. I’d have gotten more for it 5 years earlier.

And subbz2k, thanks for your point. I should have mentioned that I’m definitely not sure I’ll sell the MD. It’s a perfect setup in that I get to use it (and in new ways) for drums while I learn the A4. And I appreciate your thoughts about the MD vs AR. Preference is individual in this case, but you make a great point. The last thing I need to add to this is regret over selling my MD, so I’ll make DAMN certain I prefer the AR if I do ultimately go that route.

#5

^
Agreed.
The only thing that you didn’t mention in your post was the value of the music that you made with your MD over the 7 years that you’ve been using it.

#7

I can’t speak to any of your other points, but I actually like the pads quite a bit and I don’t understand that bit about “Hifi-Systems”. My AR’s bass drum is plenty audible (and hits hard!) on my studio monitors, the little Edirol MA10D speakers on my bedroom nightstands, and even my cheap Polks in the living room.

#8

This thread should allow us to ask the question : how many of you sold the MDUW to fund an AR?

what was the outcome and do you regret it?

My answers to the questions above include the terms: biggest fucking mistake EVER!!!

The AR was a complete waste of time for me
I will never buy a new black box elektron ever again - I have completely lost faith in the elektron brand and a once great company has truly lost its way

As I said on muff recently:

[table][tr][td][table][tr][td]Sound is fine on samples
The the analog engine is not that great - shocking hats
But it’s the workflow which is a hindrance - track select is a pain, pads weak, os bugs, plock record didn’t work in certain modes, no retrig record, one lfo, sample transfer via midi and bugs which don’t allow turbo midi (1 hr for60 meg transfer!!)

the new elektron concept that I am locked into tracks with certain machines is most unagreeable

The md is mature, open ended, stable, ram samples on the fly, allows 16 tracks of any drum synth concept desired

I do have an overall dislike of the newer black boxes
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#9

to OP: excellent questions asked thoroughly and well thought out! … I am sort of in the same boat…

my prediction: demand will stagnate / for second hand and first hand units

3rd parties will bring newer better drum machines on the market … sure elektron is top notch right now …

due to the MDs digital natue, is may not last as long as 090 809 etc …

get money or swap if you have a decent offer …

ps: you are in the worst boat due to your aftermarket investment plus fixing costs plus long time use. …

I still have 1.5 years warranty left on my unit, seem not to find anybody who is interested at the moment …

all far fetched theroies from me personally, imho , intended for OP

1 Like
#11

In financial terms I’d bet you can get your money back and more if you really want to consider it in context of its peers - the xox boxes and other classics took over 35 years to reach current crazy prices. So ask yourself if you can hold it for that long as a “real” investment.

Let me break that down a bit further - I don’t use the word “peers” lightly - the Machinedrum is pretty much universally acknowledged as a worthy successor and evolution in drum machine workhorses within the dance music community, including many pros/successful artists. I’ve lost count of the many artist interviews and studio tours where the MD gets name checked and praised. That adds value right there - the association with a sound, and maybe even an era - Techno artists especially seem to praise it. So think forward a couple of decades from now :slight_smile: it’s for sure a sexy machine, what will it’s “retro” appeal be in 2040 with that crazy red screen and smooth good looks? What? Chemical Brothers used two Machinedrums? Air “French band” used it on all their albums?Boom! You gotta use your imagination a bit here…

“workhorse” is another important word here - it’s a machine that gets used, is still in production, gets the job done - you still use it yourself - so probably easy to live with. It runs and runs and does what you ask it to. The standout praise I hear time and again is that particular workflow around the FUNCTION hold for quick change ups and return to original, which is so simple yet powerful, and maybe why it’s loved so much in Techno etc. IMO it’s Elektrons best machine from a usability perspective and probably part of its wider appeal - it seems to be the best known and loved, outside of this little community anyway :joy:

If they discontinue production then that’s cool - and I believe current Ebay prices are a bit more optimistic than 900USD for used items - more like 1000+

For me it’s a no brainer, they’ll prise it from my cold dead fingers, then give it to one of my nephews, cos I’ll never sell.

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#12

That’s unfortunate. Don’t flip the table just because the salad was poisoned!

I never understand the MD threads that shift to RYTM hate. And we’re seeing more and more OverBridge slurs sneaking in too. MD & RYTM are very different machines. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. That one is better or worse for an individual is purely subjective.
Expectations really bite people in the ass sometimes.

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#13

Old business model vs new business model is the continuing issue for me
MDUW happens to sit in the old model whereas the ar sits in the newer model
Octatrack was a transitional product

Anyway long live the MDUW!!!

#14

I remember reading somewhere that :-
One option = necessity
Two options = dilemma
Three options = choice

Therefore Elektron need to produce another drum machine & all will be right with the World :joy:

2 Likes
#17

I can’t speak to any of your other points, but I actually like the pads quite a bit and I don’t understand that bit about “Hifi-Systems”. My AR’s bass drum is plenty audible (and hits hard!) on my studio monitors, the little Edirol MA10D speakers on my bedroom nightstands, and even my cheap Polks in the living room. [/quote]
Try to create a nice Minimal-Style Kickdrum - classic 808 but with a sleeker body and sharper attack - and you know what i mean :wink: If you tune below certain values to make it darker and softer it starts to loose its bottom end quite quickly on hifi-systems (and in the end we dont produce music for people that have high quality monitor systems, right?!). So you are forced to make it “harder” - as you say - but this is not how a Minimal Kick sounds - nor an 808. And it happens with every machine - no matter if you choose the Hard or the Classic or the FM Version. And from the classic at least i expect it to be soft AND noticeable. This one is only soft and looses its bottom end way too fast. The Basetom however can solve it. It works like an 808 Kick should work and should sound and does the job very well to be honest. But its “wasted” for this. Though it really has a nice bottom end - sometimes even too much. Yeah, thats what i meant: The BD has not enough “power” and the BT has almost too much of it.

In the end i can only agree that selling the MD for getting the AR was a big mistake. They are different beasts, thats for sure and i dont want to make the AR bad and say that i hate it. Thats not the case, listen to my signature. that is the AR :slight_smile:

But - and here is the point: All of you guys have to admit that everyone somehow “compared” both in his mind in the first place (after the AR was announced) and hoped for the AR to be the successor of the MD. Turned out it wasnt the case but in any way: Even for what the AR is it has a concept that is not completely thought to the end and is in some ways more complicated then the MD was. And for this price tag i think we can expect a bit more - and especially from Elektron who KNOW how to do it right - they prooved perfectly with the MD.

#18

As far as the “not how a minimal kick sounds” argument goes, are we making our own music here or trying to sound like Rob Hood?

That said, high resonance HPF gives me back all that lost boom on Rytm’s BD machines.
No complaints here.

A side note, one of my personal favorite kicks is MonoMachine’s BBOX C0 kick, heavily p-locked with EQ, PTCH, STRT, and again… high Q HPF (aka BASE). Doesn’t really sound like anyone or any genre, specifically. Just sounds good!

1 Like
#19

[quote="“subbz2k”"]

I can’t speak to any of your other points, but I actually like the pads quite a bit and I don’t understand that bit about “Hifi-Systems”. My AR’s bass drum is plenty audible (and hits hard!) on my studio monitors, the little Edirol MA10D speakers on my bedroom nightstands, and even my cheap Polks in the living room. [/quote]
Try to create a nice Minimal-Style Kickdrum - classic 808 but with a sleeker body and sharper attack - and you know what i mean :wink: If you tune below certain values to make it darker and softer it starts to loose its bottom end quite quickly on hifi-systems (and in the end we dont produce music for people that have high quality monitor systems, right?!). So you are forced to make it “harder” - as you say - but this is not how a Minimal Kick sounds - nor an 808. And it happens with every machine - no matter if you choose the Hard or the Classic or the FM Version. And from the classic at least i expect it to be soft AND noticeable. This one is only soft and looses its bottom end way too fast. The Basetom however can solve it. It works like an 808 Kick should work and should sound and does the job very well to be honest. But its “wasted” for this. Though it really has a nice bottom end - sometimes even too much. Yeah, thats what i meant: The BD has not enough “power” and the BT has almost too much of it.

In the end i can only agree that selling the MD for getting the AR was a big mistake. They are different beasts, thats for sure and i dont want to make the AR bad and say that i hate it. Thats not the case, listen to my signature. that is the AR :slight_smile:

But - and here is the point: All of you guys have to admit that everyone somehow “compared” both in his mind in the first place (after the AR was announced) and hoped for the AR to be the successor of the MD. Turned out it wasnt the case but in any way: Even for what the AR is it has a concept that is not completely thought to the end and is in some ways more complicated then the MD was. And for this price tag i think we can expect a bit more - and especially from Elektron who KNOW how to do it right - they prooved perfectly with the MD.[/quote]
some very well thought out points in your text! …
what struck me … and still is on my mind, is the fact that the AR and MD have the same price … wouldnt you have expected the MD prices to drop ?.. I most certainly did!
AR to be the successor of MD … I bet everybody thought so! …
if the AR had worse sample upload and the MD better sample upload incl USB,
if the AR wouldnt live in the “analog hipsterhype” and the MD would get another OS upgrade
I guess, that is it… only 2 “if” … if these points were reality, the AR would have failed as Elektrons Product
…this is a fucking good thread! … but, please no stickies!

#20

@TrabanT: Absolutely agree. The hype about “now it all has to be analog to be good because everybody else makes it” is just that - a Hype! If a machine is not rocksolid and lacks Features or even has unsolved Bugs it can be digital or analog or hybrid or whatever - it just is not what one expects when it comes to production! And the MD is a statement - Elektron did very very very well with it and the whole concept behind it was already close to “perfect” as it was released as it was thought out very well. Not so the AR - they implemented nice stuff there, thats for sure but they also overcomplicated things in areas there they have not to be (noted that earlier) and they just did not make the most out of it. Overbridge will not solve this, the OS Updates have to.

and @AdamJay: We are making our own music everytime. But if you dont like to hassle around creating experimental stuff over and over again but actually want to create contemporary electronic music because you want to reach a wide audience - you definitely HAVE to have elements in your tracks people can identify. Experiments are only welcome if the basic structure is addicted towards that very style. This is how it goes! And i did not buy a machine because i can do great experiments with it - i want to create contemporary electronic music and to date the MD does still better then the AR for this! Thats for sure. Oh and before i forget it: The Filter-Trick works, sure - but only if you dont want to actually “shape” the sound of the Kickdrum with it - as you have to do it with the Filter because the AR has no EQ :wink: And it also only has one Filter so you cant do it the A4 way. Lots of limitations and not so well thought out stuff here, you see? And Elektron did better in the past on a 1500 Bucks machine.

#21

zwolf,
I think you first mistake was to buy a new machine . I have bought only second hand elektron machines , they run perfectly and I have not spending such a lot of money.

#23

not for me, deffo.
but will there ever be an OS update? will MD ever have tempo per pattern?
is MD for Elektron like Modular for Nord? a leftover for nerds?
i love my MD UW+, whatever, will try to hold to it, even if it now goes for twice the price i bought it for, and even if i hate the midi sequencer part. it’s a drum synth anyway.

#24

ಠ_ಠ

3 Likes
#25

Short answer: No

Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

37 Likes