I belive art has transformational power, independent of the artist. So I think Dylan did change things, even if he too was crushed (or absorbed) by the might of greater powers.
Wrong again.
He played at a number of protests and marches.
Youâre the first person I have ever heard say a.) Dylan was no folk star and now b.) had nothing to do with Civil Rights or activism.
Sam Cooke was inspired by Dylan to write A Change Is Gonna Come ffs.
I wish I could leave this thread but people are just throwing out whatever misinformation helps their agenda.
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Maybe so, but political activism and the lifelong work it entails has more transformative power than releasing a bunch of political music on a major label. The issues he raised havenât been solved and itâs 60 years later, nor will they ever be solved no matter how many singer songwriter makes an album about how they feel about bad things.
Are telling me Tupac and Kendrick havenât affected anything? Are you seriously making this argument?
But isnât that a critique of art in general? That it is basically pointless, when it comes to making change in the world?
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Kendrick and Tupac have affected a lot less than actual politicians, yeah. But anyway itâs not really my claim, since i was talking more about the generation that came to age in the late 60s and mid 70s, rather than Tupac or Kendrick or any specific artist.
There are people who point out problems and there are people who solve problems. Itâs incredibly rare that itâs pop stars solving the problems (the only one I can think of right now is Akon), despite the amount of them who feel compelled to talk about the worldâs problems. I wouldnât single out Dylan for criticism here, they were all getting their moan on back in the 60âs.
But if youâre looking to pop stars to solve problems for you, Iâd suggest you might be part of the problem that needs solving.
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So according to you the only valid affect is done legislatively? Where do you think that legislation comes from? Thin air? Itâs society that moves legislation; itâs society that chooses the leaders (in a democracy, anyway). Art is a mirror by which society sees itself and if some powerful voice is speaking to them, it reinforces their resolve and empowers them.
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Probably was originally a rhetorical question, but this could also be philosophy corner as thereâs no logical answer.
My point is, that maybe art, in general, is doing the âslow workâ, with regards to changing the world, by inspiring people?
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Wrong again. The only real change comes from working for change, not making music about it. Tupac specifically is a funny example. He was a rapist and glorified violence in his music. His parents on the other hand were true activists, who sacrificed everything for what they believed was right. Tupac? He was more concerned with money and fame than politics or making the world a better place.
You really need to watch the new Adam Curtis thing, he covers exactly this issue.
I feel like Iâm doing his ideas a disservice because I canât quite explain them as elaborately as he could. Yeah, everyone Iâve talked about this thing with in this thread should watch that documentary rather than try to make sense of my ramblings.
But anyway political rappers are a pretty good example of people being so tightly in this system that they canât even imagine an alternative. Theyâre working in an inherently racist society, in an inherently racist business and theyâre playing by the rules set by these systems. Theyâre not trying to actively fight them, because that would mean they couldnât release their music. Theyâre content with making their political songs that get released by major labels even if that leads to no change.
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For an artist, speaking their truth is working for change. And most people would not deny the effect A Change is Gonna Come or Blowin In The Wind or God Save the Queen or Firestarter or Alright had on a generation.
Iâm not denying the assault, but you have no idea what youâre talking about âmoney and fameâ.
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Sadly I donât personally think anything has really changed though. Those songs did get young people get riled up for a few years before growing up enough to get real jobs and some assets, and then start to work real hard to keep things the way they are and have been. Weâre only now starting to see cracks in the system, but thatâs not due to counterculture or political activism. Itâs simply because the capitalist system has gone too far and is collapsing. The pandemic did more damage that any political movement in the past 50 years.
If you think all things are the same way that they were before the 60s, I have no idea what to do for you.
Yeah BLM was a total bust. #MeToo: nothing do. Pride? Just pretty colors, really. 
I donât know what to do for you, since you seem to misread my posts constantly. Iâm specifically talking about post-60s here. Before the 60s capitalism as such was not the global system it is now, and that global system was built in the 70s. I did say I was going off topic, but that was because I truly do think Bob Dylan is a hack who was âpoliticalâ only because it was trendy and dropped the politics after it went out of fashion.
Pure cynicism and he wrote plenty of political songs throughout his career. He dropped the politics for a spell because (in my opinion) he was pissed at his fanbase for stoning him for going electric.
Who is the cynical one, me or Bob Dylan who writes political songs yet has hundreds of millions of dollars stashed away for a rainy day, hah? Naturally he dropped the politics because of his fanbase made him, not because for boomers the world revolves around them.
I just happened to see this comment posted below this youtube video and thought it belongs here:
âAldous Harding is the Aphex Twin of folk.â
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