AK OSCs Fatter than A4?

Elektron Gear Analog Keys/Four
#1

Hello there, while i love my A4 for various reasons, i’m dissaponted since day 1 because of the weak oscilators. By weak i mean that they dont sound the same depending on the octave, and tend to get way thinner the lower the octave is.

Someone posted a detaliled demonstration of why this is happening technically wise, with images etc, but i cant find it now. Anyway, i dont care about what osciloscopes say, i care about my ears and my ears dislike A4 oscilators, not iit’s features, but it’s RAW sound.

I’ve read rumours that AK has a redessign in the circuitry that makes oscillators more consistent across octaves and as a result way fatter than A4’s OSCs. Is that true?

The demos seem to show much more character in the sound of em, i’ve heard some bits of very crispy saws and squares. But before i decide to spend the extra money to replace my A4 with an AK i’d like to know the truth about this oscillators thingy.

EDIT: Please dont tell me about tricks to make A4 sound fatter, like the hipass, and osc levels+filter drive etc, i know all that and it’s cool. But i do care about the RAW oscllators sound, unfiltered, unprocessed.

Raw oscillator sound
#2

chinese whispers! official word is that some circuitry has been fine-tuned for “deeper bass” or something.

makes no sense to moan or dream before actual demos are posted which compare identical patches played by AF & AK.

since the units are patch-compatible, the difference can’t be huge!

#3

I heard they put a Falukorv in the signal path before the main out jacks.

#4

in that case, the oscillators would sound really meaty.

badumm-tssshh

#5

if you don’t like it, then maybe you should consider changing it - the AK/AF oscillators are never going to sound the way you (reading between the lines) possibly want, due to their fundamental architecture, that’s my hunch regarding the PW flexibility - why don’t you post a link to these rumours so we can debunk them as irrelevant speculation until such times as a strict blind A/B test is posted somewhere - then, and only then, let your ears decide - anything you think you hear now is utterly meaningless as it’s not a comparison, it could also be sound-design or the new filter tweak or post-processing. Well done Elektron, I say, for improving things but all the hyperbole these few words has created is tiring
you won’t get any truth on a forum either, nor if you ask Elektron probably
you don’t buy an elektron for the raw sound anyway, surely, if that’s important, get a vco and be done with it or wait a few weeks and try both in a shop
#mostinternetrumoursarefalse

#6

In short the sound is cleaner, thus deeper bass.
The difference is not huge, depending on your ears …

#7

Lol.

I wont be getting one then.

#8

I cant post the links to those rumours, because i read thousands of pages from different matters on different forums every day and dont have the time to do a research only to quote one’s or another’s rumours or speculations, and i think it’s useless.

The point is, do you guys know if the Oscillators sound better and louder (just to not say FAT and have to read “meatty” things) in the lower frecuencies or not in the new AK’s oscillators.

Only elektron knows the truth

The article i talked about is this one, i think it explains very well how the A4 oscillators behave and sound. But as i said, when i did read that, i already was dissapointed by the raw sound of the A4’s OSCs

http://patcharena.com/a4-waveform-scopes-and-some-tips/

To clarify, im not an elektron hatter or someone that impulsive bought the A4 and now complains, i got all Elektron machines, starting from the sidstation, one of the first 250 MDs, the Octa, but not the MnM, so i really like their stuff.

And yes, i’ve considered swaping it for another synth, but as you well said, one doesnt only buy an elektron machine for its raw sound, there’s a lot more and i think i stated that as well in the original post. My thoughts now are either upgrade to an AK (if sound dfference is worth for me) or keep the A4 and get a couple of fat sounding CV controlled oscillators to fit them to it.

I just find that over all the analogues i have and had, the A4 has one of the thinest sounding oscillators (if only 1 osc-no sub- no filter), and im allways guessing what could have it been if it’s got some fat oscillators like some well known analog synths out there… plus all that controll and power…

#9

this is one of analog’s main issues, imo: upgrades. On the MnM, MD, or OT, Elektron can give us all sorts of new goodies, tweak things, etc. On the A4, they are much more limited on what they can improve. Could they release a new A4 revision with the AK’s circuit tweaks? Probably. But even if they don’t, existing A4 owners have what they have and that’s that. Elektron took it upon themselves to improve the circuits when releasing new hardware. This is the way analog works, always has, and always will.

As for thin… don’t they do some key follow thing on even the default/init patch with lp and hp filtering going on, like the MnM? i.e., leave this alone and find the sound thin/weak no matter what? Or did I remember reading something I did not…

#10

There’s a lot of talk about the sound of oscillators.
How did you manage to hear the raw unfiltered sound of the oscillators?

#11

Put the second filter into ‘peeking’ mode and set to follow the keyboard. Tune it until it hits us the right spot and gives a nice boost.

Plenty of bass there if you are willing to do a little work.

#12

This makes me go buahduxhaz<<zzzzz

#13

This makes me go buahduxhaz<<zzzzz[/quote]
google translate ain’t gonna crack that one … whassat ?

#14


#15


The bass volume switch on the AK.

#16

I have to agree with the OP on this one; I really hope the AK improves the dynamic range of the low-end in a way that makes me want to buy it. The A4 has a “distinct” sound; I’d like it to have more balls too because Elektron does the sequencing part so right.

#17

Lol I don’t get the point :smiley:
Fatter?
You can compare this to the advertisements for razors by Gillette. For over 50 years, they have been making shaving equipment and each year they say, “We made it sharper!”
· People should understand that there is a limit of how sharp or how fat you can make a blade. When the blade start to pull of your skin like “Pulled pork”, then I guess you have come to the limit where you crossed the line and the main idea is lost.

Same with sounds, there is a limit and when you have crossed it, then the idea is lost.

· Calling it deep, fatter, harder sucking, raw or more analog is a sale trick and people are so easy to cheat and temp into a gloryhole where they swallow everything.

#18

Hi, I´m the author of the original scope thread about the A4 waveforms at E.U.

I just posted this very link in another thread right now just because I considere it´s key to people who think the A4 sounds as a vintage analogue synth

My ears told me it isn´t, but (as I said in this article) I expected it since Elektron is Elektron…they got a sound, they doesn´t try to emulate other stuff…I learned this in my early days with my MnM and also I learned to love the difference

Why I went anal about the waveshapes? well, I still love old analogues and wanted to know how close I could get with the A4. Also to see why it lacks some bass end.

Now I can make it sound more old or more new if I want, and for me this is the point…just explore and expand the possibilities of a synth

Beyond how now I use it, I also enjoyed investigate this just because I´m a nerd, and this is how nerds get fun

Last line: I still got my Minitaur but I´m using the A4 live for my bass stuff…why? because it sounds HUGE and can kick a P.A. in the lows like a real badass bass synth…not need to sound like a Moog at all

#19

I’ve seen all the oscillator and filter tests out there for the A4. My own observations+the observations of others and conversations I’ve had on here tend to back them up. It’s clear that there was some room for improvement in a few areas, and I’m sure the AK will address them.

Fortunately, the people who “don’t buy Elektrons for the raw sound of the oscillators” won’t be missing much, as they already have what they want.

Those who feel the A4 is lacking a little Analog horsepower, so to speak, might end up with the AK or something else instead.

Personally, I’m reserving judgment until the patch. I think the A4 has a lot of potential as a polyphonic sequencer for pads and melodies- possibly the best hardware sequencer ever for that purpose (the Cirklon doesn’t make polyphonic sequences very simple- and I feel like Elektron won’t be forcing people to [ROOT NOTE] NOTE 2: -7, NOTE 3: +5 type of sequences…).

Other than that, I love the A4 for massive FX stuff and percussion. As for bass, I have at least 4 synths I’d go to first before I reached for the A4 for a bass patch. That’s just my personal preference.

#20

That simply isn’t true.

There’s a reason the sound of 1 Moog oscillator surrounded by 2 other Moog oscillators detuned around it to create massive harmonics has been on hundreds of thousands of recordings- because it sounds better than other options.

No one is saying the A4 needs to be a Moog, but suggesting that analogue “fatness” is just a myth used to sell synths is ridiculous.