Arturia Minifreak - 6-voice hybrid synth with 37 keys and FX engine

The Lounge Other Gear
#300

You can’t overdrive the filter as far as I’m aware. And I believe it’s an SEM style filter which probably sounds good overdriven. It’s definitely the one part of that synth that is pretty mediocre to me and the “analog” aspect of it feels more like a checkbox on a spec sheet than something meaningful like on the Peak where the analog aspects are quite apparent.

That said, it sounds identical to the plug-in version to me so maybe they were trying to make sure there was parity by not having to deal with oversampling aspects in the plug-in that the hardware didn’t need? I dunno.

3 Likes
#301

Yes, I’m even thinking it would be better to me to exclude the analog filters and up the polyphony. Like a fully digital 24 voice Minifreak. Maybe even multitimbral. Maybe a sequel will have these specs along with a bigger polyAT keyboard and even more knobs?

1 Like
#302

I’m intrigued by this synth and would love a more thorough Hydrasynth Explorer VS Minifreak comparison. I appreciate the helpful comments from many of you here already though.

I have the Hydrasynth Explorer but I rarely use it. I have a distinctly hybrid workflow these days and the VST is a major selling point for me. Also, having used and really enjoyed the Syntakt for its immediacy of quickly dialing in sounds, I’ve come to realize that surface level control is something I really value. It definitely seems like the Minifreak has less modulation capabilities, but on the Hydrasynth, I tend to add fairly pointless modulations only to end up forgetting what I did, and having to wade through that endless mod menu to figure out what’s modulating what. Also, when I go from “inspiration when playing in standalone” to “actually arranging and mixing a track”, I find I have to dial down all those mods anyway. So my sense is, perhaps less is more for me, just like on the Syntakt?

I think the Hydrasynth is quick as a tool to dial in a sound from scratch, but I find it very difficult to “disassemble” an already finalized patch. The Minifreak looks to be much easier with that mod matrix overview right there in front of you.

And just like someone else in this thread, I feel this synth could replace my Keystep 37 too if I got it. So yeah, contemplating swapping out the Hydrasynth Explorer and the Keystep 37 for the Minifreak. :blush: And I realize I’d be somewhat downgrading the actual synth engine, at least in terms of how the filters sound and the modulation capabilities (and maybe effects too?).

#303

I’ve kinda A/Bd the Hydrasynth Desktop and the Minifreak a bit.

First of all I think some of your workflow problems and “disassembling patches” as you say is probably more to do with the Explorer having less screens. It was really designed for the 4 screens so I can see how navigating the mod matrix on that could be a pain. That said, you’re not wrong that having the majority of the mod matrix in front of you like on the Minifreak is a huge convenience.

I’d say when it comes to the basic wave shapes the two synths sound identical. We may have finally mastered the art of digital Squares and Sawtooths! But for real, there wasn’t any different to me unlike other synths (Moogs lineup) which have a very beefy sound to them.

The Microfreak does have a couple engines that the Minifreak doesn’t have yet and I bet more likely than not they will come to the Mini. Most notably the Wavetable synth with user wavetables. I do love the Hydras wavetables and how you essentially can build your own but at a certain point all that shit sounds the same and that goes for ALL wavetable synths. The Minifreak has a great selection of algorithms to choose from and I don’t think you will feel like you’re missing out on anything.

The filter is a good sounding filter it just lacks the character. Like I’ve said above you’re not getting a noticeable taste to that filter and I’d say the default LP on the Hydra sounds quite similar. It would have been nice if we could drive the analog filter because yeah, there’s not a lot of analog flair going on. But it’s fine, just lacks that little salt and pepper I’d expect from an analog filter.

I do think the workflow between the VST and the hardware is phenomenal though and if that’s what you’re going for you’re going to get much more out of this synth than the Hydra for sure. The plug-in and the hardware sound identical to me and the process of loading up presets you’ve made in “standalone” is seamless. Arturia killed it on this aspect and it is absolutely the major selling point for this synth in my mind and makes up for the “ok” filter.

I can’t compare to the keys of the Hydra. Obviously you lose poly after touch. The Minifreaks keys feel similar to my Keystep (I have the standard one). They do feel slightly better even but I have had my Keystep for 5 years. After the first update the touch sensor buttons also feel much more responsive. I still would have preferred physical buttons but this isn’t a pain point any more. It wasn’t bad it would just be noticeable that I’d have to make an effort to press things where now it works how I’d expect. It’s probably like a 1-5% change that made a good difference.

The sequencer on the Minifreak is also a lot of fun. It’s only 64 steps but it’s saved per sound and you can run it and play on top of it or you can control the pitch like a custom arp.

You do lose out on all the good modulation sources having 5 LFOs and 5 envelopes on the Hydrasynth but it’s not as big of a deal in my opinion as with the VST and a DAW you can easily get even more LFOs and Envelopes if you choose. Ableton, Bitwig, and FL Studio all offer Midi LFOs and Envelopes so you really don’t lose that in the workflow you’re describing.

Last thing, in terms of effects I’d say the Minifreak is the clear winner. The reverb especially is much better on the Minifreak to where it’s actually usable. The init reverb on the Hydra is horrible but even after some taming with the filters and dampening it’s still extremely metallic to me. The Minifreak is closer to what you get on modern (Digi) style elektron box so it’ll probably sit better with your Syntakt. And I won’t touch on the rest of the effects but again, overall winner is minifreak here for me. Also with the effects they are much more flexible in routing. You can of course turn the second oscillator into some unique FX but you can also but the reverb at the beginning of the chain or whatever where the Hydra really just has those two slots and the delay and reverb are in static positions.

I do think you’ll be happy with the Minifreak if you choose to switch especially considering how much the VST sides of things interest you.

5 Likes
#304

I had a Hydra explorer briefly, but swapped it out for a Minifreak.

The explorer was great for lots of reasons (the interface, build quality, crazy sound potential), but I found myself always tweaking the synth rather than actually playing it. For me, the minifreaks core sound just needs a lot less fiddling with to get it to sound great to my ears. At the same time all the digital oscillators give it a pretty broad sound palette - theres some nice quirky stuff in there. The filter is fine, the FX are great (I prefer them to the Hydras), I love the arp and sequencer, and for my (admittedly limited) needs, there is enough modulation on board.

I wouldn’t say that its more immediate to program than the hydra if you are talking about its UI, but in terms of getting to a good sound quickly, I find the minifreak much nicer to work with.

Oh yeah, and the VST workflow is awesome!

1 Like
#305

Wow, what a thorough and helpful reply! You pretty much confirm all my suspicions. Yes, the VST is the main draw here, and you make an excellent point about the modulation possibilities expanding significantly in the DAW environment.

I love the idea of polyphonic aftertouch, and I even recorded it into a song once, but honestly I don’t need it. And so far I haven’t needed more than 2-3 LFOs on a patch on the Hydrasynth. Also, that LFO wave designer looks legitimately useful and probably increases the perceived LFO count!

And yes, the sequencer is definitely another draw for me, it’s what makes me gravitate towards Elektron gear because they allow for an elevated level of sketching and playfulness beyond sound design and playing keys live.

Again, thanks so much for your input. Between your feedback and @Ryan’s experiences with it, I’m pretty sure this is a better synth than the Hydrasynth Explorer for me. I’ll see about putting the Hydra on sale (it’s just collecting dust anyway) and wait for an opportunity to grab a Minifreak a bit later this year.

Edit: the cloud reverb on the Hydrasynth is my favorite!

1 Like
#306

I meant more when it comes to figuring out how an already programmed patch was made, I find that to be a constant headache when using the Hydrasynth. Both synths seem quick to dial in new sounds on if you know what you want/“hear” in your head, but the Minifreak seems a bit quicker still, like you say.

Yeah, this would be the primary reason for sure. It’s a killer feature really! I love to just play with synths, but as soon as I come up with an idea and the song gets going, I want to unplug and finish the arrangement somewhere else. With the Minifreak, I wouldn’t have to worry about perfecting the sound preset because I could tweak it even further after recording the notes in. Truly the best of both worlds!

2 Likes
#307

I’d say because the Hydrasynth lacks knob per function doing basic synth stuff is slightly more difficult than other synths but it’s mod matrix side of things and assigning destinations is easier. Compared to the Peak, all the basic synthesis stuff is right there and it’s easy to program that stuff but a little bit more difficult to program stuff within the mod matrix.

Minifreak is a nice in between but also having the grid is hugely beneficial to me. And then looking at it on the VST side it’s very easy to assign things that way so you don’t really have to get lost as you have an expanded view so to speak on the VST view.

Man, I think I’m convincing myself to sell my Hydrasynth lol.

2 Likes
#308

Having had both the Explorer and the Desktop, the extra screens and knobs make things more accessible but the double tapping to get to pages can make the Explorer paging less of an issue.

If you like the VST integration then the Hydrasynths don’t offer that.

I have a MicroFreak and Hydrasynth Desktop now (formerly Explorer).

They aren’t the same sonically outside of the basic VA stuff (but I mean you could use anything if you just wanted that) and you’ll need to listen to demos to decide if you like the Hydrasynth sound or the Freak sound better.

Workflow wise the MicroFreak has a bit more knobs that are readily available but it comes at the cost of more annoying workflow when you deviate from the direct knobs.

The Hydrasynth has less immediate knobs available (but still some basics like filter controls) at all times but the modal display makes tons of stuff available with a quick button press or two to get to the knobs you want and there are tons of workflow shortcuts to do various things.

One thing that was lacking on the MicroFreak was some form of patch randomization so you can get into weird territories or stuff you normally wouldn’t. In contrast you can randomize just about anything at whatever level of randomization you want on the Hydrasynth.

1 Like
#309

I mean, randomization is just a quirk feature- generally speaking. Maybe for a parameter rich synth like the Hydra is might serve more useful, but on a synth like the Minifreak- hardly all that useful.

The ambiguity of the synth is in its oscillators, which don’t really need to be randomized- because the algorithms are already pretty random from setting to setting.

I’ve never really connected with the Hydrasynth Desktop like I have with the minifreak. Obviously the Hydra is more powerful, but personally speaking, the minifreak is more useful

2 Likes
#310

I was mostly just listing out features since everyone wants to compare the two. I find randomization useful for happy accidents.

Workflow and sonic palette are very individual things though, both the Freaks and Hydrasynths are useful, but ultimately you have to decide what’s most useful for you.

I do recommend listening to sound demo videos and there’s Daniel Fisher videos for both of these synths to get an idea of what they sound like before buying either of them.

2 Likes
#311

Good points everyone, thanks for adding your perspective @adamc.

I like randomization features on paper and the Hydrasynth version of it is actually implemented quite well. It would be nice with something similar on the Minifreak (I particularly like how you can dial in the intensity of the randomization, how much it will deviate from the current settings), but honestly this isn’t a deal breaker for me. I rarely make use of it in practice.

One thing I would probably miss somewhat though is the panning of oscillators and voices. That is a shame they don’t offer on the Minifreak, I guess its filters are mono. But I find that it makes a difference when dialing in some presets, it can really help to give an otherwise classic subtractive synth sound a modern twist. I’m sure you can work around it with effects, but it’s nice to have the ability to dial in a really wide lead that sounds great completely dry too.

It really is the VST functionality that is the key addition here though, for me. That’s an unbeatable productivity booster because I love to unplug the synth and make tweaks on a recording after the fact. I once had to re-record a take on the Hydrasynth 4 times because I wanted to use the wet effect of it and had to work to dial things in properly, and then I still wanted to tame some frequencies in the filter at certain places of the song. It’s a drag having to walk back into the studio and re-plug all the cables, remember how you configured things, re-level etc. Just firing up the plugin and doing a retake that way from the laptop in my lap seems awesome in comparison.

Yeah, that’s how I feel about it too. Most of the time, I dial in a morphing between two single cycle waveforms that are of fairly simple shapes (like a saw and a square) and I never wish I had that 178th version of an overly complex waveform when designing my own sounds. It sounds great on the Hydrasynth, don’t get me wrong, but to your point, it does tend to sound a bit samey regardless of which cycles you’re morphing through once you’re way past the traditional waveforms.

I’ve realized that almost all of the patches I truly love on the Hydrasynth aren’t really the typical wavetable patches anyway. I’m more traditional in that sense, I guess: I like more classical subtractive sounds with some more “modern” and subtle movements. A bit of sparkle on top of a classic sawtooth string, things like that. :blush:

Haha, well if I had both, I personally definitely would sell one of them, but that’s just me. I like to keep things minimal/simple and the fewer stuff I own, the more I tend to use them. :blush:

1 Like
#312

Looks like they are now selling the VST separately for $99 (on sale) and $200 after the sale.

I don’t know if I can recommend this as a standalone VST without the synth itself. I know people were begging for it but as VSTs go it’s extremely limited. The limitations make sense in the context of hardware but not for a VST.

Like, just use Pigments. But whatever, people will find that out on their own.

1 Like
#313

It looks interesting and maybe fun, but it’s maybe a hard sell at the same price as Pigments.

#314

got it as an upgrade for 50 bucks, as a big fan of the microfreak I’m very excited to give it a spin. I’ve gotten some amazing sounds out of that thing that would take ages (or wouldn’t even be possible) on something like pigments. I don’t necessarily see the freaks as more limited, they’re just different things. maybe not a swiss army knife but if you push them hard they’re surprisingly powerful synths and the limitations make them a bit more fun imo.

3 Likes
#315

I got it for 50 bucks, and I own Pigments and a Hydrasynth desktop. I think it will be a fun additional playground and if they come out with a module version of the hardware I will consider it. I like the idea of twinned synths a lot. Will be interesting to see what people think of the emulations of the analog filters.

1 Like
#316

Yeah $50 is better. I couldn’t see the previous customer price as I already had the VST. Good of Arturia for doing that kind of bundling.

Edit:
And yeah, having used the VST and Synth together for the past month or so since the VST came out for the hardware customers I think they sound exactly the same. Even the Multi Band Compressor on the VST does an excellent job at replicating the boost to the noise floor.

3 Likes
#317

Yeah, I don’t imagine MiniFreak V is going to sell a lot of volume priced against Pigments. But I don’t think that’s Arturia’s plan, either.

From the start, the name had me guessing that MiniFreak V would eventually land in the V Collection, and this follows the pattern so far. I would imagine that’s where Arturia anticipates the majority of sales after the launch offer.

MF V is probably occupying the same slot right now as OB-Xa V did leading up to V Collection 8 and SQ-80V did for V Collection 9. So we’ll probably see it as one of the headliners in V Collection 10 a little under a year from now.

2 Likes
#318

It’s a distinct soft synth with its own workflow and its own oscillators etc compared to Pigments. Pigments actually doesn’t measure up well at full price either in my opinion, I know a lot of users (like myself) only pick up such things when they’re half price or even less as an existing user.

At €69 as an existing customer this is a good deal. I have always found pigments slightly awkward and over-complex and this immediately strikes me as being easier and faster to program.

2 Likes
#319

Somehow that makes me perceive the real Minifreak as a bit overpriced for what is essentially that $99 plugin wrapped inside a moderately fancy $299-range midi controller. And, I suppose, an analog filter and some i/o.

In other news, I just sold my Hydrasynth Explorer. Don’t think I’ll buy the Minifreak yet though, I’ll wait for it to come out in the used market and see how I feel about it then. For now, it’s NGNY for me.