I’d like to sequence and cc-control my Summit from the Digitone - P-locks! 
Fx, the Filter on the Summit isn’t controlled by only one CC, but a pair of CC’s for higher resolution. Is there a way to do it?
Or will I have to map the Filter and other cc-paired controllers to the mod wheel/aftertouch/brethcontrol in order to gain control over cc-paired controllers on the Summit?
Yes there is. This is called NRPN … and I always forget how to do it. But yes it works. I think you have to set 4 CCs in the MIDI track.
Look here:
Thanks for helping out here, but I’m afraid that in this case NRPN is not the answer.
In the Summit manual, a CC-pair is an actual thing different from NRPN:
|Filter Frequency | CC pair | 29, 61 | 0-255 (0 to +255) | 0 (255)|
NRPN is also used to control other parameters, but not the Filter Cutoff - example:
|Filter Shape | NRPN | 0:46 | 0-2 (0 to +2) | 0 (0)|
The CC-pair gives you double midi resolution=256, and I believe it is a different kind of midi high resolution than NRPN - I could be wrong though.
I’ll have to investigate further.
Yeah, as I said… this is pretty confusing stuff. I really don’t understand why nobody did implement a MIDI 2.0 in 2000.
Just looked it up and you are right … a CC pair … wtf … they made stuff so complicated.
Novation made an extra effort to make it even more confusing! Well done!!
Does anybody know what a CC pair is? NRPN is already complicated stuff with all the 0x128 + x stuff…
From Novation Peak manual:
The internet does not provide a quick answer… only rants about Novation’s implementation 
My first guess was: 1st CC is course and 2nd CC is fine adjustment … but that would make no sense. Did you try to dial in those two CCs and change the values?
I think the Summit has dual filters, so maybe it’s one cc for each cutoff? Have you tried mapping the CC’s?
Nope, it ain’t simple 
I believe they invented cc-pairs and NRPN to go beyond midi’s simplicity, lack of resolution and limited amount of controllers (cc’s) available.
I guess it should be possible to make it work if you p-lock to controllers, but I’d prefer to only use one if there is a way to do that.
Well, I’m still a digitone virgin, so back to the manual
Well, when making a filtersweep on the Summit, then you are happy for the extra resolution, but it does complicate things, when you want to control/automate and edit stuff from outside.
Of course any extra resolution is useful. What I don’t understand is why they haven’t gone for NRPN to support it externally, but have invented such a strange scheme. There is a reason why standards exists.
The Summit has kind of a dual filter, but that is not what is the puzzle here.
Yes, I did try to map both cc’s, neither of them did the trick alone. I think that have to be sent in sequence.
I guess I could try to p-lock 2 controllers each with one of the cc’s in question and see if that works somehow.
A bit annoying but hopefully that works! Never seen paired CC’s before…
OK - I figured it out, or at least it works, but you have to set up two controllers, however you control the whole filter range with only one controller.
First you set up one controller to cc61. Notice that it will say CC 29 in the Square.
Then you set up another controller to CC 29. This one now controls the Summit Filter
If there is a way to control the Summit filter where you only have to use one Digitone controller, please let me know!
Now, RTFM Thomas!
I was wrong about how the CC pairs work and deleted my post above so future readers won’t get confused by it. They are indeed much more similar to NRPN. The first CC is used for the high bits (bits 8-1) and the second CC is the least significant bit.
It’s hard to come by any useful documentation of this stuff online. The only (helpful) text was this (from a facebook posting):
I see two CCs sent… CC29 goes from 0 to 127, and interleaved with that is CC61 which sorta toggles back and forth between 0 and 64. The Peak manual says that Filter Frequency is a “CC Pair” 29,61 values 0-255.
You can of course do things the extremely simple way; in the Summit mod matrix, assign breath control/mod wheel/aftertouch to control filter cutoff point, and then use the breath control/mod wheel/aftertouch controls on the MIDI page of the Digitone to p-lock or change the filter point. This will work for control of whichever parameters you like on the Summit, and since you have three single-knob modulation sources on the Digitone that are sitting right there within easy reach, you can control three different parameters on the Summit by doing this same simple operation; assign source to destination in Summit mod matrix, and go to town p-locking that source on the Digitone. Between the modulation of the Summit itself, which is extensive, and these three additional parameters controlled by the Digitone, it’s pretty unlikely that you’ll need to spend much time configuring CCs on the Digitone although you might want to use the Digitone to turn the Summit arp on or off, or other things similar to that, so it’s good to know how.
Yes - I am aware of this option, and I believe it is the best solution, that I’ve found so far
I cannot understand why a company would make such things so undocumented … so … what does CC 61 do when at 0-63? And what when at 64-127? Only two states, right (like on / off)?
I just looked in the manual and it seems to be documented, the issue is that I’m too dumb to understand what it means. To someone who understands these things well it probably makes perfect sense and doesn’t require additional explanation or text.
Could you show me where? Or are you talking about the table I posted (MIDI appendix)?
Yeah I just mean the MIDI appendix, by documented I mean that the CCs and values needed for control are there, and the technique is probably common but just unknown to us. Probably Google will yield some results for controlling one parameter with two CCs. Wish I could be more help but the technique I describe above works well enough for me. Would be interested to understand though!!
I searched the web for a long time earlier… they don’t explain how it works. To me it’s undocumented. Might be like you said … or in the linux world where the developer of $apps just don’t understand that there are people on this planet not as deep inside the rabbit hole as they are – and or they just don’t care about the noobs
I wish there was some additional documentation regarding the use of two CCs in the manual too. Maybe shoot an email off to Calc or Novation asking for them to add some explanation.