I think the Deluge has a great Songmode. I adapted that a little bit in my own one.
I have a timeline and can place Patterns on the Timeline. That way patterns per track are independent to the other ones. patterns have a start position on that time line and a length. patterns also have an internal start position. with that I can tell the Songmode to start the pattern on a different step then on the first one.
That way it is more like arranging in a DAW than in excel.
1 Like
sounds awesome. where’s your sequencer and when can we check it out?
Its “hidden” on the picture of my new desk in the latest acquisition thread:
And I wrote a few technical details about it in the Teensy forum
https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/71969-yet-another-Teensy-based-MIDI-Sequencer
5 Likes
oh wow, a Cirklone! looks like quite an undertaking. you should start a thread here about it to discuss further.
I feel in a way that’s more like working with loops, which I don’t look at making music so much that way, even though of course it’s usually inevitable to some degree. Had a Deluge, didn’t get along with it. To each their own.
1 Like
If you get into the arranger on the Deluge (at least it was 2 years ago) it’s like arranging songs out of sections like you did. back in Logic and Cubase. You were even able to record audio and miditracks into the arranger, that stretched over the complete song. Sure, without a high resolution screen and an unlimited amount of options, you are more free in what you do in the daw, but there isn’t much on the sequencer market, that comes that close.
Maschine+? Clips are independent from patterns. Pretty powerful for a standalone groovebox.
I’m not sure thats entirely true. I think one the big differences is that scenes and patterns are different things on the Cirklon. Songs are a sequence of scenes.
on Elektron devices, Songs are sequence of patterns. and don’t feel very flexible at all.
I always treated the Ableton clips like I do scenes in the Cirklon; just snap shots of each instrument’s pattern for each section of a track. then drag them into the Session view (or record a run through of selecting them in the order you’d like) and fine tune. that’s basically what I do in Cirklon too. I’ll create a set of patterns and scenes and start to create a song structure. then realize that I need to edit a scene or split it into two and edit one, etc…
3 Likes
The Machine+ is the worst MIDI Sequencer I have ever worked with. Yes I liked the arranger, but it was the biggest pain I ever had, working with external synths. The only way you can send program changes is by assigning PC to a knob and turn it as early as possible in a pattern while you record it as modulation. It then is sent every time the playhead comes around. As there is no way to edit the modulation after you recorded it, you had no way to move it around or correct it, if you somehow turned the knob too far. The only way to do that correctly is to connect it to a computer and do it in the machine software. not what I expect from a hardware sequencer.
You can record the scenes into a session on the cirklon? That’s something I didn’t know. seeing what was possible with scenes and talking to people with a Cirklon, they are all recording stuff into the daw and do all the arrangement there.
That’s why I got the Mk3 Maschine…most times dont need to look at the computer but can then use it like a DAW at other times. I sequence all my external synths with it.
Still excited to try the Cirklon…in 2 more years.,
1 Like
Many people do that and that’s totally fine, but that’s not what I personally expect from a hardware sequencer (what the topic is all about).
Yes, I was only referring to the arranger, because you said that nothing come close to the deluge song mode.
As a midi sequencer it’s basic but I like how it records automation better than Hapax that overwrites automations and you can’t overdub them. Let’s say you recorded a CO movement and you want to edit that automation by playing it again, you can’t because as soon as you touch the knob Hapax delete the whole previous automation . At least on the firmware I tried.
BTW on maschine you can p.lock automation per step, by holding a step and turning a knob and you can see what are the locked values just by pressing that step à la elektron. You can’t see them on macros for external gear even if you can p.lock ccs (standard NI inconsistency). For what I remember there’s no such a thing on Hapax, you can only draw them (I don’t like that way of working) or play with knobs.
Maschine limitations in this department don’t bother me much because I use it with modular and when using midi I don’t like to edit automations but I prefer to play it.
Isn’t what song mode is for?
1 Like
there’s no concept of “session” in the Cirklon. but if you mean songs, yes there’s a song mode. the scene list is your song, basically. you specify how long each scene should last and what the order should be, and they just play one after another from wherever you’ve started (unless you do scene loops too, which are kind of like the loops in Elektron’s song mode).
yeah I’m sure some people prefer to use the Cirklon to sequence everything in various scenes and then they edit the audio in a DAW to create an arrangement. I’ve done that or built the scenes up into a full arrangement within the Cirklon and just press play there + record in the DAW, then mix the track. just kind of depends on the track and my mood/approach for it, I guess.
4 Likes
Lately I’ve been coming up with initial song chord changes/ideas in Logic, then recording the midi into patterns/scenes into the Cirklon CK mode. From there I’ll add the other accompaniments on the Cirklon, use song mode (I like it!) and record the audio back into Logic.
But it’s so easy to send and receive midi accurately to and from the daw and the Cirklon that you could do it many ways or even multiple times within a project.
3 Likes
Same here and got back on wait list. I have a Squarp Hapax as my main external sequencer but will need another powerful sequencer in the future so why not?
1 Like
I’ve been curious about this, good to hear its easy to do. Is sending midi patterns done via the USB port?
yes