Cryptocurrency

I agree with you on the “currency” aspect, had my issues with that at first too, but effectively you can think of it as points or credit or kudos within a network as well, as the only thing that makes most of these coins “currencies” is that you can use them to exchange value in their respective networks. The real store of value is not the coin, it’s the underlying network.

The mechanics that are built around these “currencies” matter a great deal as to whether they will lead to a mere conversion of existing wealth distributions onto the chain or whether they may challenge the system as such.

The US Federal Reserve printed some 40% of all USD in circulation in the past 12 months. The ECB was even worse. We are told that inflation is at 2%, but if you look at commodities prices, real estate prices, the price of oil etc, inflation is MUCH higher - easily in the double digits. Effectively central banks are diluting the value of your work and earnings at a shocking rate. This doesn’t matter much for people with big money, as they are likely to be invested broadly and hence just ride the inflation wave upward. But it matters a great deal for the “middle class” (if that still exists) and below. In a way, holding cash is worsening the distribution issue more than anything out there right now. And if you invest in stocks to beat inflation, you are still tied to the economy dictated by central bank policies, so effectively you remain part of the problem. However, with a few Cryptos (and Bitcoin in particular), you “remove” your dollars from direct fiscal control of a centralised federal reserve. I highlight bitcoin because it represents a particularly good store-of-value (due to its mechanics) that enables anyone to side step the effects of such irresponsible fiscal policies.

Furthermore, fiscal policy is often used to manipulate entire nations and leverage foreign policies - bitcoin is decentralised and is much harder to leverage by governments in foreign policy. So far over a trillion USD have been committed to the Bitcoin network. That’s a HUGE deal. You try to remove 1Tr USD out of a fiscally centrally controlled economy in any other way and watch the war machinery kick in.

The heavily skewed distribution of wealth we see around the world is a direct effect of financial capitalism and its power brokers. Blockchain technology paired with organisational models based on the metaphor of the network are one encouraging pathway to wrestling some of that power and control out of central functions with denominated power towards a more collective, decentralised emergent power.

Yeah, that’s a real risk as always with new technologies. That’s why we should make an effort to appropriate and apply this new technology into scaled infrastructures run on mechanics and ethics that have a chance to counteract this sort of hijack rather than stare at it passively from the back rows (not saying that’s what you advocate at all :)). But I agree, the same technologies could be used to enable some form of fascist-techno-capitalist distopia, similar to how the great decentralized, liberating promise of the emergent internet in the 80s/90s has been leveraged by governments to increase surveillance and central control.

4 Likes

what i want to see is, that some cryptos and the given values are bound to environmental-protection with the used or “in-development” technologies (hardware/software)

so the user is the stakeholder but far more flexible than like holding environmental-related fonds using a middle-man (banks…)

i guess some of them are already in this sector, or I’m naive

1 Like

I’m on the side of expecting true proliferation of authentic, cheap, strong advanced blockchain technology as being a force for good with competition, fairness, neutrality and transparency.

Like the internet itself, enabling innovation, access and participation on a much broader scale than the current centralised world of finance as leeched on by big corporations and institutions.

It is exciting that there is now a hive of innovation and development activity signalling a new age. Like such waves before, it is for individuals to determine if they want to be part of it. All you need is a brain and internet access. It’s the potential for new cottage industries that’s exciting, not world domination or great riches overnight.

No doubt though, regulators, institutions and big tech corps need to be watched warily as they also seek to capture the genie that is out of the bottle and threatening to eat their lunch.

2 Likes

100% agree with this.

(including the kick drums part) :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

1 Like

You do realise you are “removing” your money from a system that is somewhat controlled by democratic checks & balances (most of Europe), and putting its speculative potential into the hands of a few whales/oligarchs? Look at the distribution charts, instead of calling me ignorant. Look at speculative movement after Billionaire-tweets.

In crypto, as with fiat money, big capital will rule what you do.
Stop advocating crypto as the solution to the world’s problems.
Speculators are not saints, they are gamblers and they are destroying earth for personal enrichment.
They won’t play nice just because you tell them of your vision of a (your words) " . . . collective, decentralised emergent power." That sounds like a cult, to be honest.

To end this, I do not wish to attack you personally, I ask you to think twice before you post sanctimonious hot air.

1 Like

With the greatest respect Michael, your posts have an extreme perspective.
The democratic ‘checks & balances’ you describe have provided the Irish and Greek populations with extortionate debt burdens in order to preserve the world order and institutional wealth stability.

We are all entitled to our opinions, but the harsh rudeness of statements casting the opinions of others as ‘sanctimonious hot air’ may cause readers to think you are overly aggressive and convinced of your own opinion and seeking to force your view on others. Personally I find little in your view is convincing, but I won’t resort to ordering you to ‘stop advocating’ your beliefs.

Inflammatory language can easily destroy an otherwise interesting discourse.

Have a great weekend!

7 Likes

@MichalHo has been bearish on the stock market and crypto since the start of the year. He’s hoping/waiting for a crash.

3 Likes

This whole centralized vs decentralized debate is totally missing the point in my opinion. There is no inherint good or bad in both of them. Its the distrubution of power. And everyone who thinks that blockchain currencies will distribute the power equal is massivly naiv. Why should that be the case? Why? Who is wealthy now will be wealthy then. And whoever has the power. Decentralization won‘t change anything. Can someone try to explain that to me. For real? I would listen to a good argument. But it has to be better than -> its the future

1 Like

The nature of organisation also affects the flow & distribution of power.

Decentralised, emancipated, self-governing systems would do a better job at distributing power more inclusively because they would be designed to do so (that’s one of the main reasons to design a self-governing system rather than a centrally denominated system).

You can download my case study on holarchic organisational design as a participatory, more inclusive alternative to traditional hierarchies.

If you PM me I can guide you in the direction.

Alternatively you could read something like Frederic Laloux’s “Reinventing Organisations” or Fritjof Capra’s “A system’s view of life - a unifying vision” if you prefer a more theoretical treatment of the topic.

If you speak French, you could also look up Laurent Ledoux - you’ll find some interesting info as well. Laurent was the CEO of BNP Paribas and later the head of the Belge ministry of transport. He tried to introduce holarchic principles into all of these organisations, with mixed results, but interesting nevertheless. His philosophy is worth diving into as well.

There are PLENTY of examples out there, where people are trying to do it differently and better - from a human, planetary and economic perspective.

I myself have spent the last seven years building an organisation here in Berlin that functions differently (entirely self-organising) and disrupts the power distribution patterns of mechanical organisations.

And I can tell you that all these efforts and experiments out there (including our own), while promising, struggle with the same thing: scalability.

Blockchain technology is the tool we all didn’t know we were waiting for and it just MIGHT solve that issue of scalability, which to me is worth engaging with.

I don’t make an argument when I say “it’s the future,” I state my opinion and encourage anyone else interested and active in this field to engage with the technology and the movements surrounding it.

2 Likes

slave labour is something that can be ‘solved’ with blockchain.
it can help to create a ‘chain of truth’
I think the possibilities are pretty much endless
although, I don’t think the world will be much better, after solving problems.
Such a chain of truth might create a lot of power
and, as we see with slave labour, human beings are not really good with power.

I hear you and I am with you on structural change and as you say organisational design and hierachy.
What I don‘t see is how becoming dependend on technology in that regard will move things forward. First thing you need to change is peoples minds. We need common ground and thats always a process and will stay a process it will change and will always be a debate.

You have to admit that right now blockchain is not what it promises. It cant. Simply because of its insufficiant infrastructure.
Secondly, while it might be a currency in theory at the moment it is an spekulative asset and that forces the fact that people will pull out massive amounts of money in the near or not so far future. So it could crash big time, which in itself would not be that big of a problem but makes it totally unusable as a reliable problemsolver for normal people that would consider bitcoin for anything. So once again its just for the rich and wealthy and I just dont see how to change that.

The Fact that People that own Token now during the Rise of the currency could become extraordinary rich is as unfair as it gets because the distribution is so out of bias if someday bitcoin would be accessable.

And the ecological questions are there and they wont go away. Every transaction has to be mirrord to the blockchain and if this system becomes big it becomes so massive that you just cant unable to run it. How would you do that. I mean break it down shortly, I know its not exactly that way. But you have a money transaction and you have to mirror that to lets say the most save blockchain that can exist, so to every other participant. Lets say everyone wants to take part. 8 billion. So 8 billion copys for one transaction. If everyone of those makes one per day. Decentralized may sound good but it is also inefficiant in some regard

5 Likes

And to be honest. In my view. The most important point is not blockchain or not, its the fact that people are in debate about it here and elsewhere. Because that is what brings change and always brought. Technology is always a tool which can be used both ways.

4 Likes

whew… a bit intense in here. to lighten things up, shill me on your meme coin. i just bought some spacepenguin - 3% burned, 3% distributed and .1% to coolearth.org - plus, penguins. enough dog coins, right? anyone else buying meme coins? bad idea perhaps but I’m giving a few a try.

Who doesn’t love a penguin? Did you see the Werner Herzog doc with the mad penguin running the wrong way?

I can’t shake the Ponzi feeling with these small tokens, but I’ve picked up some HappyCoin and a couple of others.

3 Likes

Dear @Mokomo

If this thread can’t take a bit of criticism, what is it then?
Nothing less than an advertisment for crypto-portals. It should be taken down as spam.

And by the way, I have never attacked anyone personally in this thread - my opinions, though harsh, were on the matter of crypto-speculation – not people, not even blockchain tech.

However, personal attacks on me came - very quickly - from @Chancla, @hausland, @GirTheRobot, probably more. Some were completely puerile, some were more eloquent.

I have to give it to @Prints, he has managed to stay matter-of-fact, more or less. Respect for that.

I don’t own a car, I don’t own crypto, I don’t own stocks, I heat my flat with solar power, I eat meat once a week only.
Yes, at least I’m trying to make a difference.
Oh, I use a phone and a computer, yes. At least they fulfil a need to create and communicate.

Greece and Ireland’s troubles are the result of an imposed Anglosaxon/Chicago-style capitalism (of which, crypto is simply the continuation without any goverment regulation whatsoever) They are not a result of democracy.

1 Like

I had to flag 3 posts of you because I thought they were ad hominem / offensive in my eyes. Just saying. Maybe create another thread to rant about crypto…?

Back to topic: Is anyone staking ETH? Which platforms are good for doing this? From what I know it could boost your portfolio when ETH 2.0 is released?

2 Likes

Any recommendations where to purchase eth when based in Germany?

Kraken or Coinbase from what I know (for example). Binance is a platform from hell (bugs everywhere but at least a customer support that is answering your mails - Coinbase doesn’t do that - Kraken Idk but I guess they’re good to go).

For stacking you can check Swissborg, they have also their own currency. Very strong project kinda similar to Revolut in the future but with Swiss banking philosophy.

I really like your point of view on this topic to be honest when I’m talking about crypto to my friends irl they don’t truly understand how our economic world and cycle work and reading what you wrote make me comfortable in my own opinion.

I strongly believe crypto can have a great influence on our society on several aspects and I think it is still on an early stage.

Regarding the recent activities on Tweeter, Elon is making it look ridiculous and I can’t believe people are still following him nowadays when it is clearly obvious that he’s doing illegal market manipulation for is own interest. When you see Tesla car prices and how high the BTC has reached recently he has no interest to accept BTC in exchange.

As we know, buy low and sell high is the rule on the economic aspect and he’s clearly playing this game. Check how he had a huge influence on DogeCoin value with few tweets…

I always been a fan of BTC due to his nature and because as Mokomo already said, it’s an alternative to our currencies we are so familiar and we all feel confortable for decades, but I believe it’s time to change our habits and contribute to new ways of thinking where we will be the real owner of our money.
When you let your money sleep at the bank account, you can make sure that you are losing value overtime.

@mokomo which company are you working with in Berlin ? I’m curious to check this out

2 Likes