Expressive E Osmose

The Lounge Other Gear
#987

cancelling will make someone happy… the next person on the list :slight_smile:

seems fair (as the official route) to those waiting… though won’t make much of a differences to most of us.

ah, I think if I had a continuum, Id be not so sure either … unless you really want the piano experience.
(which would make Osmose tempting, given you already know the Eagan Matrix)

–
a bit of an aside, but I noticed there was talk about the Eagan Matrix and its accessibility.
(indeed it is a bit different, and some find challenging)

in the past, there were that many resources for the EM - really it was just the manual, plus a couple videos. but that seems to have changed a bit.

in particular, there is now the “Eagan Matrix Preset Cookbook” , have to say this is really good…
I think you still have to have read the Eagan Matrix User Manual first, to get a bit of idea of whats going on. but this cookbook does two really interesting things.
a) give you a summary of the important bits of the EM
… a kind of cheat sheet (though a bit more in-depth !)
b) an overview of how each to the factory presets work
… thus give you examples of how to use the EM features.

seems to be a bit of the missing link I had before… the practical examples of use.

Still not going to be easy, but definitely with work… it’ll let you dive pretty deep into the EM.

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#988

While sound design with the Eagan Matrix may be attractive for some people, one can approach the Continuum and Osmose in another way. There are fantastic presets, and once one has a favorite, you have that one instrument for you to play with. The sounds that are like acoustic instruments are particularly interesting, I find, and there you can spent forever just learning to play this. I never looked at their instruments as conventional synths, where one is going to focus on sound synthesis, owning it.

4 Likes
#989

yeah, I was going to make a similar comment…

for many the continuum (and I think Osmose will be similar) is about the playing/performance aspect… not so much about sound design, and hence why the EM ‘complexity’ and requiring an external editor, for many is, just not an issue.

(answering @adamc the display will allow modifying parameters of the preset, but not fundamentally change it… it also allows changing how the Osmose surface will ‘react’, so kind of configuration - preset editing is via the external editor)

but of course, for many, that will be a strange sentiment for a synthesizer and some of the negative connotations we have around ‘presets’… but really its not that odd, if we think in broader terms of an instrument.

this ethos is pretty well explained in the FAQ
here at base of the page under " HOW CAN I LEARN TO BE GREAT AT DESIGNING NEW EAGANMATRIX PRESETS?"

this might be off-putting for some, esp. if their passions are in sound design, but it is an important different between the Continuum/Osmose and most other synths.

note: all the above is not saying you cannot do sound design, you can, and its very strong in the Eagan Matrix, but it tends to be much more deliberate, with intent - than with many synths, were you can twiddle some knobs :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#990

Yeah I get the impression the on screen is more like the Hydrasynth macros which are setup for performance controls primarily. Still a bit vague until they have a manual or release more info.

I don’t really have negative connotations about presets but quite often there’s still some tweaking I’d potentially want to do. If that’s hard to figure out what settings to tweak due to the complexity of the Eaganmatrix that would be an issue for me.

1 Like
#991

yeah, macros is pretty much what it is…
(Im assuming it’ll be matched to what the EM/Continuum have called ‘Barrels’)

as for tweaking, the factory presets are works of art (well really science/physics),
they are designed to sound different by being played differently (as @Olaf_Wolkenhauer mentioned, you learn the preset), also the macros are carefully chosen to give good scope.

… again, the focus in on playing/performing, these ‘presets’ in a variety of different ways.
in the same way as an acoustic instrument is.

as for complexity, its not that hard, the matrix is like the ems synthi.
but some are put off due to the mathematical appearance, and the equations.

but that complexity, is where the magic happens…
its where the surface is tied to the sounds, in a way that traditional mod matrix with simple scale/offset simply cannot hope to achieve.

but get past that initially ‘scare’ of the equations, and its very straightforward.

again… thats not to say this is for everyone…
If you really love grabbing a subtractive synth, and creating new sounds continually, experimenting by changing parameters to come up with something you like… then probably the Osmose won’t work in that role.
the Osmose will be ‘immediate’ in the sense of playing/performing (in a variety of roles) , rather than in sound design (imho)

(*) ok, easy for me to say, Im a developer, confident in DSP… but I do know musicians that are happy to tinker with the equations where they feel the need.

1 Like
#992

I’m also a software engineer and it’s not really the equations aspect that concerns me for complexity it’s the rather unconstrained signal flow.

Most synths tend to follow a pretty linear progression from inputs to outputs.

The Eaganmatrix seems much more like an FPGA where routes can all change and signal flows can end up as mess of patch cables.

This also gets more complicated as feedback loops appear to be possible as the Sources and Destinations appear to have the same entries whereas usually in a more traditional synth there are more constraints on the directionality of modulations.

#994

The EM is definitely a huge rabbit hole and it is also a marvel in terms of expressive performance. I am not worried that it will be to complex for me to program. Instead, I will focus on playing the presets and tweaking some of the more superficial/ helicopter controls here and there.

3 Likes
#995

No more, nor less than (eg) eurorack.

Though I’d argue, matrix are easier ( with practice!) to read than patch cables as they don’t obscure the patch !
It’s even arguably better than some synths that are menu divey… as you can see everything.

But for sure, with flexibility we loose the hands on nature, so there are always going to be compromises in any design.
Also no denying , it’s not as fun programming patches on a computer … as fiddling with hardware ( be it knobs or patch cables!)
Doing on a computer is more functional, more practical not more fun!

it’s interesting, I think most kind of expected this to some extent with the continuum. For it to be different.

But I guess with a more conventional form factor, and a more ‘accessible’ price, the Osmose might be more readily compared to other synths … whilst it really is still something quite different, unconventional?!

#996

I’ve been watching the osmose carefully for a longtime, and have had a continuum for a longtime. It’s an instrument that I really enjoy practicing, which in my old age (my conservatory training was trumpet not keys) is saying a lot with kids and career. But when I sit down at the continuum, I don’t mind running through scales and arpeggios for hours. It’s just as close as you can get to an organic, acoustic experience with an electronic instrument.

But I love the idea of the osmose. My biggest issue is the lack of a “Y” expression on it, and I’m worried that it’s going to impact the full range of EM sounds and design. Being able to play a string or wind-type patch on the continuum, I can slide my finger north/south to bring in harmonics, or an overtone / octave. It’s a truly natural expression that makes a lot of sense on a per-note basis.

I’m sure adding a touch-sensitive surface would have added a tremendous amount of cost, and I don’t think it takes away from what the Osmose brings to traditional keyboard playing which can already be incredibly emotional with just an acoustic piano and the ability to strike a hammer against a string, but knowing the continuum and EM pretty well at this point for a novice, the lack of Y holds me off.

Fully agree on the EM cookbook. It helped me build a few patches that were definitely out of reach before that manual. Shame there isn’t more patch sharing out there, especially with the module in the wild.

#997

Yup, that’s my biggest fear too …
However,
I think, in practice, ( the best) Osmose presets will be very different from continuum, as will be the playing experience.
So not better, nor worst, just different.

and that’s ok.

( it may take a while for us to get the most from the Osmose… EM programming for continuum has been out for decades )

one thing I’ve found with expressive controllers , is none can do everything. in the same way as a violin does not compare to a piano.
the surface you interact with is so important, such a huge influence of what’s ‘possible’

of course, that’s not to say there isn’t overlap , or you can only do X with Y … rather I just like to celebrate differences :slight_smile:

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#998

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It’s happening :gift::christmas_tree:

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#999

awesome! may I ask: where are you based, and what was your orderdate :)?
and how much did you pay?

i’m in Amsterdam and ordered on 22/11/2019, no notice yet.

#1000

For your information, I’ve had this status for a few weeks. No idea what it means but I thought you would want to know.
EDIT : I was wrong ! Misread from my tiny phone. Mine is not fully paid. Sorry for the confusion.

#1001

But have paid the remaining balance?

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#1002

OOOOps, sorry, wrong information ! :woozy_face:

#1003

:laughing: … we all got excited…

I think the deal is pretty simple, those that were in the first few (100?) will have already received email… and if paid, they are, hopefully, going to be shipped weekend before xmas.

for the rest of us… I’d be surprised if any more are handled this side of the holidays.

as for how many in each batch? how long to wait? we can only speculate…

but on the Haken Facebook group (where many pre-ordered), even within a few hours of launch, people were talking of the Order # increasing by 100s…

in fact, when I ordered at midnight on day of release. (19th Nov) , (so about 6 hours in?), it looked like nearly 2000 (!) orders had been placed.

frankly, Id be surprised if ExpressiveE are getting these pallets in with huge numbers of Osmose… 100? 200? … so its going to take quite a while to get those numbers down.

BUT, thats all speculation … I hope in the new year, Expressive E will shed some light, to allow us to have a rough idea… if not, I may well email them ask… but for now, let them enjoy the holidays :slight_smile:

of course, all this ‘logic’… doesn’t mean Im not continually checking expressive-e… despite knowing there will be nothing to see :laughing:

#1004

If I remember correctly, I‘ve ordered first day early-bird was announced. I‘m located in Austria. Missed the first email two days ago (stuck in Spam, don’t know why) and got a second mail today…

I paid a total of 690€ without taxes (business expenses :wink:)…

1 Like
#1005

wow, I checked, guess you’re right,
my ordernr:

Screenshot 2022-12-15 at 17.52.11
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does that mean nearly 5000 orders? 3000 in 3 days?

guess I will have to be (very) patient
@redrabbit: remember your number/order reference?

looking forward to seeing/hearing the first experiences of the early birds here!

#1006

indeed, the order numbers went up faster than most of us expected…
(I think we thought it’d be a bit ‘niche’ :wink: )

but, take it all with a pinch of salt, we really don’t know if its 1-1 order/osmose, or how close it is to that.

similarly, I cannot remember if expressive-e ever mentioned how large the pallets/deliveries will be… and that makes a big difference.

as I said, I kind of remember, expressive-e saying that would publish some kind of delivery schedule once osmose started shipping. so I think we’ll have alot more info in next few weeks.

#1007

Ok, just checked and I ordered in 20 Nov so next day. Order num 4090. So you guys are right, it might take a while…

Still very exited this is happening. Q4 2022 or Q1 2023, I don‘t really care. Not sure why some might not have gotten the email. Maybe US or Asia? I think they will dispatch based on location/region, getting the first pallets to Europe and dispatch there first?