Note that at the moment a patent issue means that if you record the MPE output from Osmose rather than the MPE+ output, any pressure-weighted portamento used wont be present in the midi data.
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Also watch out for tedious differences between MPE and MPE+ outputs in terms of what midi messages are sent when using the pitch & mod faders (and probably pedals), and also some differences in how many midi channels are used (Im not an expert with this bit but I think someone told me that EaganMatrix doesnt use channels 15 and 16 for notes). Sometimes these things could potentially trip you up if intending to use that midi data to control the internal Osmose synth. So I’d be tempted to try to use the MPE+ output for this purpose. Even if your DAW doesnt end up retaining the extra resolution from MPE+, which is done using CC87 messages, at least the rest of the data should remain compatible with the EaganMatrix synth when replaying it.
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Do you happen to know if those dubious messages that you had to remove also come out of the Osmose if you only set the Haken port in Osmose settings to notes, rather than notes + matrix?
can’t remember if I tried this…
but you can just filter them out of the input, which is what I would do
however, this doesn’t really address the main point.
something like bitwig only attaches cc74 to the note, it will not attach the other mpe+ messages to it
so that means that even if its recorded in other automation lanes (in bitwig it is not) , it still would not be editable using per note editing e.g. moving notes around.
Im also pretty sure (99%) this is true of Ableton…
however, when I was using Cubase, I think it recorded all cc per channel …
but Ive not used Cubase for a while now… so this might have changed for the better (or worst)
you’d have to try it.
also there are some midi recorders that could probably record all the MPE+ midi ‘as is’, but then no proper editing, and the extra data can only be used by the Haken engine…
(ok, the vcv module you mention will use it… but thats the exception that proves the rule)
btw: I know what the MPE standard says SHOULD be supported, Im talking purely from experience here… you can go talk to your daw provider of preference, about any shortcomings 
but frankly thats not that bad… Ive been using ‘7bit’ MPE for years, it’s perfectly functional, synths have slew/step compensation anyway.
whilst of course we can look at MPE+ , and technically go ‘ooh more bits = better’, I do not currently think it adds much … and adds exactly zero unless you are targeting the Haken engine.
so sure, technically fun/interesting, but for most musicians , its not going to be useful.
reality for now, MPE is best option if you need it. better support/interoperability.
our best hope of higher resolution midi is going to be wider support/adoption of midi 2.0
(and I still stick by, limited travel range on Osmose, means this 14 bit midi is nowhere near as important as it was for the continuum)
Yes, at the end of the day context is king in terms of which version of the midi output is best to use. There may also be differences between the MPE and MPE+ output of the Osmose that are just down to the current implementation rather than anything that is a fixed consequence of differences between the MPE and MPE+ spec on paper. For example the pressure-weighted portamento stuff I already mentioned. But its also possible that there are differences in temporal resolution in practice, eg it could be the case that the MPE+ mode happens to output more expressive messages per second than the MPE mode does in current firmware (even when excluding all those extra CC87 messages that come with MPE+), although I need to do more testing to confirm or reject that possibility, its just something I maybe noticed yesterday when testing something else, but havent checked properly.
perhaps… though, frankly, I don’t care at the moment…
Im focusing on playing the Osmose, resisting my natural urges to dig too much in the technical side.
its clear that the Osmose firmware doing the MPE/midi <-> MPE+ is not perfect, nor optimised.
thats ok, its a new product, there will be firmware updates, it’ll improve.
so for now, Im just focusing on learning to play it , and also learn the Eagan Matrix…
much more fun than looking at midi streams 
so I stand by, for most (not all) , just use MPE , perhaps in a few scenarios MPE+ might be slighly better - but for the vast majority, they won’t even notice, and will have a better ‘user experience’
Sure, I have fun playing it too, and thats probably why various Osmose threads have become quieter recently, existing owners are just having fun playing it. But that doesnt help answer some peoples questions in full detail. And EaganMatrix programming is not much fun for me so far, though I dont rule out the possibility that this will change in time. One of the reasons I studied the midi data is because the first patches it looks like I’m going to make are with other synths, and I wanted to get my head round the details of the midi and which midi output to use with other synths. I think that with the current firmware I will probably use the MPE+ output even with synths that are not going to benefit from the CC87 stuff in +. Next time I post I hope to have made a few fun patches on the Waldorf Iridium that play well with Osmose, exciting times indeed.
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I don’t have my osmose yet but I’ve decided to treat it like an acoustic instrument in the way I treat guitar, banjo, woodwinds, etc… when I record.
I loath editing standard MIDI for synths captured from live playing as it is. Editing MPE (or eventually MPE+) sounds like the stuff of nightmares.
It’s gonna be takes, retakes and punch ins all the way for me.
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yup, this is what Im doing (and have been doing with things like my Eigenharp)…
and as we are at Elektronauts … of course a shout out to the Octatrack 
as for midi/mpe… I think this is going to be very interesting to watch develop.
after a few months/year…
how many will (predominantly) use the Osmose with the sound engine vs as a controller.
Im sure everyone will do a bit of both… but after some time, where will they lean !
funny at the moment,
Ive done very little Osmose -> other synth, only really Madrona labs Aalto.
But I’ve done alot more MPE controllers -> Osmose/Eagan Matrix
but then again, Ive been dreaming of having the Eagan Matrix for many years, even prior to the Osmose… only reason I didn’t get the Eagan Matrix Module, was the Osmose was ‘incoming’
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When I get the Osmose (which I’ve decided I definitely will, in part due to the reflections of owners on this thread), I will be getting it in large part as a less expensive alternative to the Continuum to access the EM engine. I think I will be satisfied with using it on its own, even if I decide I don’t want to use it to control any other synth. I do hope that the introduction of the Osmose eventually leads to others creating even more presets and sound design options for it (e.g. now that Tim Shoebridge has figure out how to attach the power plug properly 
).
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I’ll be interested to see whether the Osmose kickstarts any patch designers making MPE/Osmose-specific banks of patches for certain MPE synths. This sort of thing hasnt exactly been a lucrative market so far, mostly dominated by packs for things like Equator. Maybe Osmose momentum will start to change that. Then it will be interesting to see which synths people choose to use for this mission.
Yeah I’m reasonably confident we’ll see EE do some deals in future, as they seek to further broaden the appeal of the Osmose. UVI did post a video showing their IRCAM Solo Instruments 2 being used with the Osmose, but that was a long time ago, back in the earlier days of Osmose promotion, long before actual launch.
I was thinking more about the independent synth patch makers.
… and M4L eaganmatrix
Whoa, that’s a bummer. Is this documented somewhere?
Thanks.
https://expressivee.happyfox.com/kb/article/256-playing-menu/
Their own documentation makes it sound worse than it is, because they dont want to acknowledge that at the moment you can work round this by using the MPE+ midi instead. And you can actually use that midi to control other MPE synths, because MPE+ is mostly backwards compatible, synths just ignore the extra stuff in MPE+ and it ends up much like normal MPE as far as the other synths are concerned.
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amazing, Osmose has an online manual? And I was wondering when the manual would be finally released 
anyone else going to ContinuuCon?
May 17-19 2023 - Palmela (Portugal)
Despite the name, it is very relevant to the Osmose…
I’ve not been previous years, as I don’t have a Continuum, but know many that have… and so Im really looking forward to going this year !
I know the organisers very well, so I’ve some insight to the itinerary, and going to fantastic.
basically, It’s a lovely blend of talks about various topics surrounding these lovely instruments (and Eagan Matrix), musical performances from some of the worlds best Continuum and Osmose players, and perhaps as importantly socialising with like-minded musicians, including a great opportunity to meet the likes of Lippold Haken, Edmund Eagan, Christophe Duquesne, and some of the crew from Expressive E behind the Osmose.
I will say it’s a pretty small event., as its so focused, so tickets/numbers are pretty limited.
anyway, I can’t wait, its going to be a crazy May, as I also go to Superbooth the week before!
so May , I soak myself in the Electronic Music scene, and come back so inspired to make music, with so many new ideas learnt from those I meet
bring it on …
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Is there an actual support email for Expressive E?
I’ve been trying to submit a support ticket via the website but for whatever reason it seems to hate me.
I get the “your ticket has been created and you’ll receive a confirmation email” box but then no email comes (nothing in spam), no follow up. I first tried to submit a support ticket two weeks ago, waited a few days to see if I’d get the confirmation - nothing came so tried again - nothing came. Been away for a while and tried to submit another ticket a few days ago - again, no confirmation email.
It used to work weeks ago. Either their system has since broken or there is some issues between their email server and your email server. Do you have a different email address of your own that uses a different server that you can try?
When I used it I got confirmation of ticket and then eventually human responses that both had a reply address of osmose@expressivee.com so you could always try that.
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try support@expressivee.com, I’ve been chatting with them, and getting replies on this.
(I suspect osmose@expressivee.com is likely an alias to this)
for me, I went thru contact form ( a few weeks back),
then my first reply was automated, saying they were extremely busy, and it could be 7-10 days for a reply. and it did take this long.
(I think I ended up replying to it to ‘ping’ them, and they apologised for the delay)
BUT once they opened the ‘issue’ , then I was getting response pretty much immediately as we worked thru the issue… that was using the above email address.
so I looks to me like they are processing as fast as possible… but initial query might take a while.
(and Id assume they are prioritise based on severity)
I will say, their support, once started , was nothing short of exemplary… very quick, and thorough.
Im a great believer that you cannot stop things ‘going wrong’ 100% of the time, thats natural, but how you handle it if/when they do is the important part… and Expressive E get a 10/10 for me on that side.
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