Model:Cycles Kicks On Digitone

Elektron Gear Digitone/Digitone Keys
#61

I’ve watched that recently yes :slight_smile: Well, I don’t personally like those very obvious and sharp sounding fm sounds anyways. But yeah you are right. It’s much easier to get that with an fm synth.
I did however learn yesterday by a mistake, that modulating the samplepool in DT with an exp. oneshot lfo very fast gives a sound very close to what you often get with fm. Could maybe be a nice hack for some :man_shrugging:

Btw, I just sold my DT today to fund a 2nd hand AR mk2 in light grey (preferably). I’ve had a mk1 a couple times not so long ago, and I had a mk2 a few years ago, so I know that I want that version, even though it’s double the price. With AR only having -24 in pitch (for samples. I often pitch down to between -30 and -40) and no basewidth, so I do need resampling. Plus that single perfomance knob for easy live hp filtering of the kick and bass, the better screen and encoders plus slightly better pads are all a plus for me. I could’ve gotten a mk1 and kept DT for resampling. But then I need to have my pc on for transfering it back to AR mk1. Plus I crave just having one Elektron box to dissapear into. I know about the midi limitations, but only need to sequence 1-2 mono synths. So “sacrificing” the left of 1-2 choke pairs for that is no biggy. I don’t need poly or midi lfo’s anyways. Would have been fun using dt for controlling and mangling Ableton. But whatever, I’ll manage :slight_smile:

#62

soz, was messing around on the DN today and it got me thinking about this thread, I think personally there is nothing plastic about the sound? it can sound like an ass whopping…the kicks can definitely ruff you up, to my ears… And definitely gives my DFAM a run for its money in the nasty department.

just pissing about but seriously think the kicks can have a lot of clout… just a small DN jam recorded with the OB plug in stand alone…

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#63

I definetly hear some good stuff in there. But I think there’s some harshness in the top end that sound sort of “plasticy”. A lp filter will obviously help with that, but if you like that top end, then it doesn’t need to be filtered out :man_shrugging:
But for me personally of course, that’s always a choice.

#64

Btw, yesterday I had my mind set on selling the DN to help fund an AR mk2. But then I absolutely had to listen to great sounding dub techno yesterday, and remembered that the best chord stabs and dubby and subby basses usually are made with fm synths. Also bleepy fx can be made easily with more complexity on an fm like DN. Now I haven’t done chord stabs and dubby sounds for a while now. Have been more in the mood for the harder and faster techno lately. Not that those sounds are not valid in those styles. I would definetly try to incoperate them at least :laughing:

But yeah, now I’m thinking if I should keep it anyways and buy an AR mk1 instead as I’ve had a couple times before. I just really want the resampling feature, due the lack of at least 1 lower octave for pitching samples, and lack of base-width filter on the AR. But also the better screen, encoders and pads plus that single perfomance knob.
I played with the thought of preparing my samples by pitching them down an octave. Maybe hp a little to take the worst and then use the hp and lf on the mixer to take out more if needed. But that’ll just take so much time, and also potentally taking away some of the creative freedom I could have with the lost content of the samples.
But being able to resample also opens up a lot more and helps self-containing the production in AR mk2.

And then there’s the focus and releave of just having one Elektron machine.

And then again, DN has polyphonic midi tracks with midi lfo’s and p-locking of midi CC controls for when working with the daw :thinking:

This is my biggest problem with Elektron gear. One piece always lacks something I want that the other ones have. Annoying when you don’t want more than 1-2 pieces. With 2 it could cover it. But then there’s the mental problem of 2. It’s an even number, so my brain seems to find it harder to keep focus, because there’s no middle. But 3 Elektron units becomes too wide for my vision and becomes overhelming. Luxury problems of having abundance of choices :sweat_smile:

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#65

Agree. Chord stabs on DN little Heatedonly:

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#66

I prefer them a little more solid and full sounding though. A little too much/sharp res on the filter for my taste as well. But always each to their own of course :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

I came across these Youtube vids. Those made me stop up and think if I should actually keep it instead :thinking:

Surely I could load chords into the Rytm, if I decide getting that again. I have a lot of great ones from Wave Alchemy for instance. But I know from when working in Ableton, that it becomes tedious trying to find a chord that fits the track, unless you start with the chord. I also rarely use them anymore. DN makes it easier to find chords that fits the track.
If I’m keeping DN, I’ll buy an OT. I can make great sample manipulated stuff with it that I can’t do with AR or even DT. It might have less transient punch and parameter resolution, but when I pitch right down to the lowest registers, it becomes a different result in a better way for me.

On DT, the lowest pitch range that is usually still interesting for me, Lies somewhere betweem -30 and -40. So I like OT better for downpitched weird stuff.
But how does it sound with drums? No demo have convinced me yet. Most of them sounds, could, thin, flat and harsh. Maybe it’s just the samples people chooses to load. Because I listened back to an old unfinished track of mine yesterday. The acuostic hat an tambourine samples I used in that one sounds better than most of the drum stuff I’ve heard coming from OT demos. I even recorded into a Mackie VLZ mixer and UMC1820 back then.
I had pitced them down a little, and probably also used a bit of lp with res and maybe slight drive.
So maybe it’s the usual thing, where it depends on the use of the user and the users personal taste.

Can’t remember clearly, but can you adjust the fidelity for the playback on the machine? Or is that only for when sampling?
If the OT don’t add or take any away, when not pitched, timestretced or effected, then I shouldn’t get any less punchy drums han in Ableton right?

Then I could stack kicks of the samples I like, tape saturated 909 ones from SFM for instance, and use DN for tuning the bottom end and body maybe, and then resample. But that also sounds like a lot of hassle :sweat_smile:

And I miss the kicks from AR. Here’s an example with kicks I like, playing together with the DN. Also from ‘Lenny San’.

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#67

Btw the first kick in the 1st DN vid I just posted sound quite good. What I’d usually go for.

The ones in the 2nd DN vid sounds a little to woody for my taste. That’s what I try to avoid.

An then the one in the AR vid just has this thicker heft to it compared to the others.

Decisions Decisions.

Edit:
I’ve decided to go with DN and OT for now. Listened through older unreleased music of mine, and realised that in terms of sound design, those 2 together with my Mono Lancet, have been the best buddies in my setup.

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#68

It’s less than 300e new, it’s worth it for the kick alone.

But I’m sure you would find a use for the other voices. And if not, this thing can still sequence midi…

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#69

I quite like DT for fine tuning kick samples and other drums, the real key for me is getting the filter envelope set up to basically follow the kick samples envelope and then add a enough resonance to give it a bit of a boosted feel while still keeping the character of the sample. When you repitching adjust the filter down or up with it. Obviously there are limits but it always helped me feel like my samples were a bit more alive. I just got an M8 tracker which does a lot more than a DT but the filter quality and envelope snappyness on the DT really shines in direct comparison with the M8 when work directly with one shots. I really should spend some time with an OT again, I’m curious how I would feel about its filters vs the digitakt, I assume the envelopes are just as snappy. I dont really think there are bad choices in the stuff you’re deciding between. *(I sample my model cycles drums onto the digitakt mostly because I like to play on it most)

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#70

Haha I know. Have been thinking it several times. It’s not really the price though. Not having more than 2 elektron devices are just a personal preference.

I’ve noticed that in many demos with a setup of 3 Elektron devices or more, there’s a higher chance of me enjoying the music less than music coming from 1-2 Elektron devices. Less units seems to have a more focused sound. Maybe because users are pushing out as mutch as they can, from what they already have. Instead of skating over several units at a time to get around to use something from everything.
All depending on the user of course.

I have an attention deficit disorder afterall, so a more focused setup, will be best for me.
Still need diversity though in terms of instruments and fx, so that I don’t get bored to easily. With just DN and OT, I can go in so many directions on each machine, without having to get lost.
Having too much stuff, will just make it less motivating for me to dive into a deeper machine.
M:C will be too similarly in sound to DN as well :slight_smile:

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#71

You mean the res hp trick to accentuate the subs in the keynote of the kick, and then adjust the freq, after adjusting the pitch as well? :slight_smile:

Or do you mean res lp?

#72

This, I fully understand :+1:

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#73

I’ve done both but usually LP res as it clamps down and helps let you keep the same general shape to your kick despite pitching it down. HP can make stuff massive but I usually dont use an envelope with it.

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#74

Aarh okay. Yeah I undestand now :slight_smile:

#75

Can someone please explain to me exactly what the velocity to volume setting for the sound tracks in Digitone does?
Couldn’t find it in the manual.
Still relating to kick synthesis.

Because when I listen to the difference between having the setting on max and having it on neutral, but with the output level slightly louder (I only have a kick playing, nothing else), the velocity setting seems to retain the loudness of most of the transient of a kick and boosting the body and making it more full sounding. Don’t know if the curvy grafics just makes me imagine things :sweat_smile:

But definetly with more woody sounding kicks, it seems to make it too woody and muddy on max, but sort of scoops it out on the lowest setting. I know that this also sort of appears to happen when just having the volume of a kick lower or higher from when working in Ableton.
But it doesn’t seem to get as muddy and woody with just the output level unless I turn it slightly louder, which could indicate that max velocity to volume increases the body more than the transient.
I should probably record it in and level match the peak volume :thinking::grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
But would still like to know exactly what the velocity to volume setting is actually doing, so that I’m not fooling myself (too much).

I just thought that it would increase the volume in relation to the velocity. But if it’s increasing in an actual curve as the graphics could sudgest, then it would make sense in what I’m hearing. If not, then either it’s just placebo, or something else in the synthesis engine is affecting it?

Also the term ‘velocity curve’, seems to be present in the back of my mind.

#76

Louder with EXP, but max values (127) sould be the same.

VELOCITY TO VOL

Selects how MIDI velocity affects volume when playing the Sound from a MIDI keyboard.

OFF means velocity does not affect the volume of the Sound.

LOG applies a logarithmic velocity curve. The volume difference are greater between softer keyboard presses than between harder.

LIN applies a linear velocity curve. The volume difference between keyboard presses corresponds linearly to the force applied.

EXP applies an exponential velocity curve. The volume difference are greater between harder keyboard presses than between softer

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#77

Okay, so in other words, no dynamic change in the sound itself should be happening when changing the velocity to volume curve on a synth track already playing a sound?
Should just be placebo that I’m experiencing then :sweat_smile:

#78

This setting definitely change volume behavior if you recorded velocities different from 127. It changes velocity to volume curve for incoming midi notes and recorded notes.

This is confusing for sure.

#79

So only a change in overall volume and not just the body of a kick for instance?

Sorry if this is already answered in your posts. My brain gets confused when detecting too many details at once :sweat_smile:

#80

It changes velocity to volume curves. :content:
I don’t know how to express it differently. I’d say it should correspond to AMP page VOL in the audio path, but that is just a supposition.

Edit : I made a quick test with LINEAR curve, VEL 64 VOL 127 seems to correspond to VEL 127 VOL 90, aproximately set by ear.
Sounded similar (no VELOCITY MOD).

Me too. Btw some of you posts above seem much longer than mine. :smile:

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