I’m wondering if it’s time to revisit the Live. Last time I tried it, it was the MKI and firmware was 1.3 - it had the Tube, Bass and Piano-ish plugs only, and the first batch of Air effects had just been added.
I never quite got into the zone with the workflow, tho I did enjoy the overall structure of the sound and song architecture.
Sorry not quite following the double tap thing? It was difficult for me to remember what pad number i.e. program edit was on, that’s why I added the labels.
But this is highly subjective stuff 
I think the double tap thing is the secondary press button (shift) option.
For as much as I love my Live, I wouldn’t recommend this. A few things changed and definitely for the better, but the core workflow is still the same.
Might be slightly off the topic here but my god……Push 2 and ableton is scratching my itch to cover the needs of these different boxes including the venerable OT.Im channelling the whole mix straight through my newly acquired TLA Ivory 5060 valve compressor to beef and compound it all up.I love the way i can just drop things in random and see what happens.Which to me is the limitations to workflow of hardware…….Getting lazier in my old age!!! “ ] and fits into my less is more mind state…Still interested in the perfect hardware tho.
Yes… where you have labelled Mute and Pad Mute, for example, there’s a dedicated button for Mute, and a double tap of this gets you to Pad Mute. That’s a more efficient way to get there to me.
I only really use the Menu+Pad and Main+Pad functions.
I love this kind of no-nonsense answer.
I’m out. Thanks 
First off, workflow is pretty much the same, but the firmware has come a long way and changed the feel of the workflow.
More importantly, you said;
There was a definite clicking point/eureka moment for me with the MPC (that I think many others experienced too)… it sounds like you maybe didn’t get there, I think it’s a shame when I read about people who bail too soon on the MPC for that reason.
It comes down to what your needs are. What are you using now and looking to replace potentially?
We all have different expectations/needs of workstations/sequencers… for me, the MPC is the only device that allows me to be fully DAWless outside of using Ableton. YMMV> 
Ideally, I want Logic Pro but with a hardware workflow. I want it all in one box.
Now, I use primarily a blackbox or a Circuit Rhythm. I’m productive on those both professionally and for personal pleasure.
If I can’t get a hardware Logic workflow experience, I’ll go for fast, smooth and intuitive instead. Which is what blackbox and Circuit give me.
But if I could it all in just one environment with the occassional resampling through outboard gear, I’d be where I want to be.
Logic is wired like I am, but the computer experience is too distant for me.
Menu+pad is cool, but the thing is it takes two hands, something I don’t always have…
I think people will find a simple swipe from left and tap is much easier… pretty much just as fast as a double tap.
Anyway though, the point is we now have options… program edit never got a shift function because it is at a different level deep then other double click functions. There is a method to which ones did even though it seems crazy and thru didn’t want to break the design parameters on the live 2.
The Live mk1 doesn’t have the Mute button unfortunately…
This is very important to me. I thought I needed more synths, one of those cool looking setup with plenty of drum machines and synth, but I did my best releases with either Force + Microfreak or MPC only.
My mind is kinda wired to the ‘subtractive sequencing’ workflow, so on the MPC I just do as much as I can on one in one mega sequence which I then copy and paste to create a structure and edit.
No you’re not. Get an X!
Ahh, I didn’t know this. 
I hear you.
If I wanted a computer-free solution, I’d 100% use the MPC, like I do.
There’s really nothing that comes close to it… maybe the Force is the closest, but I don’t always want to work in clips.
I actually prefer not to work in clips as well. I find ways to get around it in clip-based workflows, both blackbox and circuit. I’m a linear fellow, overall.
This is unfortunately true - you do get up to 16 of them to apply wherever you like, with scaling / offset controls for each one, which is nice. But there are a few annoyances:
You can only apply them directly to a control, not as an offset - so no scope for combining multiple LFOs on one target (you can do it, but they fight over control).
They can’t be tempo synced - only reset at the start of a clip. So to get tempo-based LFO effects you need to convert Hz to BPM - which in fairness does tend to work OK, it’s just an inconvenience.
You can’t apply macros to other macros (as far as I’m aware) - so no way to use one LFO to control the rate of another, for example, though I’d love to be corrected here.
But it is still a big advantage over the MPC - it just needs a bit of refinement. BPM sync would be top of my list, followed by an option to apply the modulation as an offset - but this is a general issue with the MPC and also applies to their parameter locks - as with the MC-707, you have to reset any changes with a second lock that reverts to the original value. I guess this makes sense in terms of giving you a ‘concrete’ pattern that does exatly what you ask it to, it just clashes with the Elektron method that I’m used to and prefer.
Hi, could you tell how you use the circuit rhythm with the black box - what it brings to the party for you? I’ve got a black box and love so much about it but don’t think I’ve really cracked it in terms of workflow for me. I mainly write guitar based tracks in a linear fashion with plenty of synth support - pop and ambient. I also have an mpc x which I love using too and end up feeding sketches from the black box into. Funnily, I think the BB sounds at least as good as the X. Wish I could get a decent workflow going with it!
Hey, I actually don’t use them together - I tend to stick to just one device for writing songs and whatever else I use - synths, fx units or whatnot - it’s just for feeding it.
But I use them in a similar way, to record mostly loops not synced to a specific BPM. I don’t time stretch or care much about tempo, but just play something and record it. I then batch those together and tweak them until they sound right with each other, and build sequences with them. The free form and detached structure of both the blackbox and Circuit Rhythm really fit my style.
I was looking into if maybe the MPC can be a muscle and blood-version of my workflow, eliminating a lot of my need for outboard sources such as synths and fx units, keeping as much as possible within one box.
But it seems the sequencing structure of the MPC is a bit too rigid for my workflow, from what I can tell from googling, reading up and from my memory with a Live when I had one, a few years ago (though not long, I should note).
The Akai Force seems closer to a pimped and pumped version of my current workflow. But the convenience of a battery powered device isn’t a small thing in my case, which is why I’m cautiously doing some research on the Live again.
I’m going to do some double-checking re. your query in the Force thread when the heat permits, so possibly midnight, but it might be worth taking a closer look into the clip programs on the MPC, which are its closest parallel to the Force workflow and are in some (but not all) ways superior (e.g. you’re not limited to the eight mute group structure of the Force) - they’re very similar to an audio-only Blackbox layout.
As I say, the Force does expand on the clip notion and provides a great environment for using it, but as per your final paragraph, portable it is not. Even if it had a battery you’d put your back out moving it from A to B.
I suspect the big addition the Force might bring for you is the arranger mode, which ties everything together nicely, benefits greatly from the streaming ability, and provides a connection with the Logic / DAW workflow. But as I say, I’ll respond more in the Force thread when it’s safe to do so.