New generation of Poly AT (polyphonic aftertouch) keybeds

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

General discussion thread for the recent new generation of Poly AT keybeds.

You may have heard, the ASM Hydrasynth has a brand new keybed designed by ASM for polyphonic aftertouch. Joining that club is the new Waldorf Iridium Keyboard, this time in collaboration with the venerable Fatar and appears to be based on the TP/8SK design. Lastly, Behringer announced two years ago they had finalized a poly AT keybed to be used in upcoming premium poly synths, none of which have released yet.

Brief history lesson: support for polyphonic aftertouch, independent key pressure values, goes back to the original MIDI spec. It does not require newer MPE implementations, and many synths silently support this part of the MIDI spec, but development of polyphonic aftertouch keyboards and keybeds died out in the 90s (largely due to cost) until a recent revival.

Who will be the first to market and sell a Poly AT MIDI keyboard? Native Instruments? Arturia? Behringer? Elektron?
How much would you be willing to pay for a Poly AT MIDI keyboard, or an upgraded keybed in an existing synthesizer you love?

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#2

My money would be on Medeli keybeds, either as ASM following up with a range of controllers, or licensing their Polytouch tech, perhaps through Arturia?
Not sure who else uses their keys / manufacturing.

But I’m expecting a wave of thrilling new gear in the near future, if supply chains are ready for it.

Retail prices, well that will be interesting to see how all that pans out. :man_shrugging:

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#3

There definitely are good things happening soon with improved more expressive standard keyboard keybeds.

It’s worth listening to what Glen Darcey ( of ASM ) recently said in this interview.

So you can expect those keybeds in more than one other product, including a major maker, to be released in the near future.

With Darcey having worked at Arturia previously, i am not sure whether that helps or hinders Arturia using the Medeli technology.

I certainly think a non-Hydrasynth keyboard product may be on the way from ASM too.

With the Fatar keybed, the two candidates that come imediately to mind for me, is Studiologic, which is part of Fatar, and a second keyboard product from Waldorf. Of course the door is open for anyone wanting to use the Fatar technology.

So that means several expressive keyboard synth products.

I’m very hopeful there also will be some advanced dedicated MIDI controller keyboards using some of these expressive keybeds soon.

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I think it is good to examine some detail in the keybed technologies.

There was two versions of the keybed from Medeli. The earlier version that was and is currently on the original Hydrasynth keys has Note ON Velocity and polyphonic-aftertouch, but not Note OFF Velocity ( sometimes called Lift ). The two new keybeds from Medeli, the mini keys in the Explorer, and the keybed in the Deluxe, both have Note OFF Velocity.

From reading the Waldorf Iridium Keys manual, i’ve decided that the WIK does not have that, or at least not yet. Whether the current keybed from Fatar is capable of Note OFF Velocity i do not know.

Also of interest with expressive keybeds is the X dimension movement, often used for but not limited to, pitch bend, and implemented in products like the ROLI Seaboard, and to be available eventually with the Expressive E Osmose.

Not sure if this thread is to include the new Seaboard Rise 2, due to be shipping come this fall ?

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#4

Osmose, absolutely. Very exciting stuff.

I (very superficially) assumed Arturia might already be using them, just because of how similar the Explorer looked to a Keystep etc. I have no idea. :slight_smile:

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#5

I think it is good to examine some detail in the keybed technologies.

There was two versions of the keybed from Medeli. The earlier version that was and is currently on the original Hydrasynth keys has Note ON Velocity and polyphonic-aftertouch, but not Note OFF Velocity ( sometimes called Lift ). The two new keybeds from Medeli, the mini keys in the Explorer, and the keybed in the Deluxe, both have Note OFF Velocity.

From reading the Waldorf Iridium Keys manual, i’ve decided that the WIK does not have that, or at least not yet. Whether the current keybed from Fatar is capable of Note OFF Velocity i do not know.

Great distinction and thanks for teaching us about that detail!

Also of interest with expressive keybeds is the X dimension movement, often used for but not limited to, pitch bend, and implemented in products like the ROLI Seaboard, and to be available eventually with the Expressive E Osmose.

Not sure if this thread is to include the new Seaboard Rise 2, due to be shipping come this fall ?

I intended to scope this thread to just Poly AT as defined in the original MIDI spec; not MPE which is channel per note. There are already some great discussion threads for MPE, but it’s a different class of synth that supports MPE, where many may support just Poly AT via standard MIDI implementation.

I have an Osmose on pre-order (if it ever ships), but I expect the key feel to be different than something Poly AT from Fatar or Medeli. The ROLI boards obviously have a massively different key feel as well.

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#6

I (very superficially) assumed Arturia might already be using them, just because of how similar the Explorer looked to a Keystep etc. I have no idea. :slight_smile:

Not yet! I would pay stupid money for Arturia to put the Poly AT keybed from ASM’s Explorer in the Keystep 37!!!

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#7

It’s the advanced keyboards that will eventually push MIDI 2.0 and leave the MPE compromise behind. ( Or so i hope. )

I do expect most if not all the coming advanced keyboards to offer an MPE use option though.

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#8

Yeah, I meant using Medeli as a manufacturer, not the Poly keybed (yet). As far as I know Medeli have been manufacturing for a couple of brands, and not only keybeds… Might have been the same interview where I heard that. (edit: it was)

#9

Toward off topic with this, there definitely are more than a few companies that Medeli manufactures for – with the old technology keybeds. But the only one i can name in this category is Wersi organ.

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#10

On a related note, Yamaha apparently still makes the Electone with Horizontal Touch.

Horizontal Touch is included in this demo. I don’t know if there are better vids out there that show it in action. The others I checked out did not show it as obviously.

The Electone is sold only to certain markets in the world. If you are a USA customer, I guess you’d have to jump through some hoops to import one.

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#11

I was on the fence about the Hydrasynth until the poly aftertouch Explorer was released. It’s an unbelievable deal, and now I’m thinking about buying a Deluxe!

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#12

Me too!

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#13

That would be fantastic.

Two Explorers gives you multi-timbral options too, or you can use one half as a controller.

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#14

Damn, still no progress on this? I was really hoping Arturia’s Minifreak would have a PolyAT keybed to go head to head with the Hydrasynth Explorer on both features and price.

Any news on products in the pipeline with new keybeds?

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#15

idk if counts as keybed but k-board had a soft refresh and now has usb c. (maybe qunexus soon too)
want to give KMI a try. though i still dont know a lot of things about how their devices can be set up.
how much i can get out of MPE controller if i end up pairing it with DN, is still a big question :drunk:

#16

I’m sure just about everyone is aware, the new Anyma Omega from Aodyo will get a poly-aftertouch keybed from Fatar if the Kickstarter pledges hits €160K. ( EDIT : The poly-aftertouch keyboard feature is now INCLUDED ! ) ( thread )

So interesting to compare the various synths attached to these advanced keyboards, Waldorf Iridium Keys, Hydrasynths, and someday soon — Anyma Omega and Osmose.

Slightly surprising there aren’t more at the moment, but they’re coming.

image
Anyma Omega

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#17

the thing with MPE is that you’re able to express motion on every finger.

on the k board pro 4 I discovered that you’re playing the sounds like on a real surface so when you hit and hold its plucky to near silence (you’re stopping the surface to ring out) or you hammer it with a fast finger and it rings out (like it would resonate)

I know that a Piano uses a hammer to hit a string and needs the keys to lift the hammer. Piano.

but a Synthesizer can do all sounds imaginable or can recreate the foundation of different aspects from analog instruments, sometimes long blowing pads and sometimes plucky clicks, drums.

that’s a thing I really like because the inspiration comes within the feel of that particular surface not a recreation of a piano playing non piano sounds but even try’s to fill the gap of imagination by traveling a bit, then triggering a sound, followed by the only real expression (tiny amount of aftertouch control)
that’s not so intuitive but often great fun, for sure.

but if you want to play a xylophone with mallets on a near identical surface, some have to kill the long time training between hit a key, fill that gap, wait for sound, imply AT expression.

with the K board Pro you just directly hit the string inside your virtual Piano.

(got a good deal on a second one on reverb for 500) 98keys of expression.

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#18

Rather than hijacking this thread with discussion that would be marginally off-topic here, i created a new thread for comparison of the new generation keybed synthesizers.

#19

I think Glen Darcey might be teasing a new ASM product, or a new 3rd party product with a Polytouch keybed. Specifically see his reply to my comment. I might be reading the tea leaves a bit too obsessively, but being vague on purpose right?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CpNxiT_LSQE/

#20

That reads like a product tease to me. It’s not like he’s in the habit of posting super-artsy gear photos, from his grid.