That’s right - so for example to install tmi you would use:
;install https://github.com/schollz/tmi
By the way, it’s been stated by the Norns developers that the ;install method is to be preferred over FTP wherever you can (and direct installation from Maiden isn’t available) as the latter has more possibilities for messing an installation up.
Yeah, same here. It’s like meeting the friendliest people ever who only want to help, but you don’t speak the same language. Once you learn the dialect, it’s all good, tho.
Thank you for the heads up! Maybe now I’ll have the guts to install something not in Maiden 
I never dared go there m’self. I tried my hand at writing a small script and after the smoke had cleared and the fire department said the insurance company told me it would take six months to restore my home, I decided not to try it again.
lol
i’ve had mine 2 yrs and failed writing my 1st app multiple times…but i finally have an idea which might be possible to finish
if i make progress i’ll share
As lovely as the monome people are and everything around the norns platform, they’re not always great at managing expectations as far as the threshold goes for developing scripts of your own
Lua itself is an easy enough script language to learn, but to know that means you have some idea of the internal logic that a script language applies to begin with. It makes sense if you can grasp the basic concept of it, and from there, it’s only practice. But if you got no preconception of machine logic, it’s not trivial to approach if you’re not wired like this to begin with.
Odd thing is, norns is such a mature platform now, I’m surprised they’re not pushing it more as the stand alone product it really is. It’s like that voice of obscurity is so much a part of its attraction, you just have to dig into it or not bother at all, even if getting a norns and never touch a single line of code, is easier than updating Elektron firmware. Even down to the description of some applications -
“Travelling. Yet, not moving, except step by step. Up, we go. Down, we fall. Left? Yes. Right? If you like.”
(uhm, so that’s a … step sequencer?)
Some of the application descriptions are beyond bewildering. What does this do? And secondly, how do I use it? Simple questions, often answered with the most sparse and obscure possible response.
Yeah it cracks me up as well. I do admire the imagination and worldbuilding that goes into stuff like this or Ciat-Lonbarde boxes, but yeah it can be frustrating.
Yeah, and the applications are usually very straight forward in themselves. So it’s like, “Be like Hemingway. Just say it like it is. He won the Nobel Prize after all. He must’ve done something right.”
But nah.
this is one of my few gripes because i learn best by seeing or hearing the potential of an instrument in use
older max apps made by monome (brian and kelli) always used to be released online with a video showing a brief performance…which drove some people crazy but was perfect for me to imagine ways to incorporate in my workflow
80-90% of norns apps are user created and a significant number of those come with brief text-only docs
if the uses can easily be conveyed by text that’s fine but often i feel lost until i see somebody else use the thing
i can explain some of this stuff from monome perspective and from my own view as a longtime observer/fan who now understands most of their choices
100% agree because this describes my situation
from chatting with folks it’s difficult for them to imagine what could improve because many devs are years removed from novice level or have previous experience with code / machine logic
to their credit they welcome targeted criticism and are continually trying to improve docs to add clarity, avoid or explain jargon, and give inexperienced users the foundation needed to enjoy their new instrument
if you have suggestions/problems with the existing online manuals shoot dan derks an email (or dm)
I can’t speak to your specific experience @chm_jacques but doubt that the people who answered were being intentionally dense
for some of the technical heads…it’s hard to understand what others need because they’ve given us what they themselves would want: direct access to the lead devs, public underlying code hosted on github (for the firmware, global shared libraries and individual apps), plus “basic” education on scripting and building control schemes for external gear
there’s a deeply ingrained top down culture of education which could annoy somebody who wants a simple straightforward answer on something
even though norns now has a robust library of midi/cv routing, synthesis, and sound mangling tools it’s pretty clear that lead devs for norns would like you eventually learn to make your own dream instrument or unique utility which fits your specific needs like a glove
wellllllllllll this is the only thing i wholeheartedly disagree with cause flowery poetic descriptions aren’t enough to hide a great app
the most accurate observation from your cdm profile on norns was the comparison to some gaming platforms…norns is like a console for audio “games” more than anything else
the difference? all games are free and when detached from commercial considerations seem to skew heavily toward weird and wild stuff
core devs behind norns have always made software and hardware instruments that fit their own personal music practices and what they need before accounting for all the ways other people will use their creation
it might be frustrating on some level (leading to unorthodox design/interface choices) but a community of like-minded folks evolved around those principles
users make a useful tool for themselves & then share it for free online
then listen to feedback from others
then explain any quirks & hidden features
then offer alternate/augmented controls and interface options
and release the new version of their improved app for free again
Very good points.
I actually think monome and the norns platform specifically, do everything right in terms of what they’re building and for whom. I really think it’s more a case of how they present themselves. There’s a clash between the intention of being inclusive and helpful, and using a language that doesn’t include or help all that much, for the curious observer from the outside. Not for lack of trying, though, so intentions are the best, obviously, and come from a good and compassionate place.
And I really think it should be said, just clearly and without fuss - norns is a great platform for sampling, audio manipulation, effects , looping and mangling. Anyone into that kind of stuff, should really just check it out.
you’re spot on regarding main docs but the apps (for better or worse) are art objects presented by a diverse collective of weirdos…fictional mythology baked in might elicit an eye-roll from others but i can’t fault the maker
also, frankly, it might not encourage me to dive in and try their app
i think as the community around norns expanded brian and others involved have been a bit more open to excluding superfluous description where possible (a similar thing happened with the mannequins eurorack manuals which many prospective buyers HATED)…
excerpt from the original manual: Cold Mac is the spice in your modular melange. Utilitarian functions strung together in a complex web of interaction. Survey your creations with meta-control or expand your sources in twisted mirrors.
excerpt from the technical map: COLD MAC is…a tool for mixing, processing, reconfiguring, slicing, transforming, and generating voltages at control and audiorates, for macroscopic control of an entire patch or microscopic control over a single wave.
insiders see no problem with that because we know how approachable these developers, fellow community members, are
(when confused by any of his tools i just ask trent directly)
but it’s a daunting prospect for someone new
especially if they’d rather figure out stuff on their own without need to ask for assistance
Yeah, I mean, just the fact that someone on the Elektronauts forum explains this in a more coherent way, offering contexts the monome community and the Lines forum don’t manage to, goes some way to show that it’s mostly people from the inside trying to get what those on the outside, want to know and need help with.
The final irony in this is that norns is super easy to pick up and use. Many more pedestrian synths are way more headscratching than the average norns application or the platform itself.
However, some things are problems only if you decide them to be. It could very well be, the business side of monome really don’t mind this profile at all and in fact, nurture it to some extent. It certainly gives them a voice.
After all, they got us talking for the better part of an evening.
yeah i feel like there’s a similar cloud surrounding Elektron boxes
most users here have an overwhelmingly positive view of the situation but it’s kind of a gamble to dive in since documentation isn’t super clear for a newbie…the language is ostensibly more clear than the monome gang but with tools that are capable of so much it can be tough to distill features w/o oversimplifying things and selling a device short
i took the plunge and am geeked to start learning OT but all my friends are recommending merlins guide and youtube walkthrough clips by third parties (not official Elektron info)… 
i hope this doesn’t come across as antagonistic or confrontational, it’s just the more i think about it the more i see a parallel
the comparison is unfair to all parties involved anyway and no need to harp on it
just funny considering the disparity in size between both companies
But it’s very clever
For what it’s worth (I’ll try to be brief, since this more about Octatrack than norns), I have found that the OT manual to be the best resource for figuring out a function on the Octatrack. I usually go there first, and as such, I had it printed and bound, since sometimes paper manuals are easier to flip through. Merlin’s guide is fine, but its scope is limited, in my opinion. It’s kinda like a Cliff’s Notes. Maybe my post is on-topic after all, as I think the best way to learn the Octatrack (much like Norns, perhaps) is to use it. Think of a use case, a musical idea, and focus on trying to build that in the OT. Build up a knowledge base while also developing some muscle memory, then extend it from there.
Also, it was fun to read through this back and forth with @circuitghost. I dipped my toe in the norns / grid water last year, but quickly decided that the time wasn’t right for me. The hardware is beautiful, so I hope monome continue to see success and stick around for a long time.
I have found the manual to be, like the OT itself, obtuse at first but after coming to understand the vernacular and finding how to get around it my own way, indespensible. It’s on every device and has a shortcut on my desktop.
Norns on the other hand terrifies me 
Btw good of you to join @glia. Can’t wait to see what you do with the OT. People around here are super helpful.
I urge everyone to check out glias beats on Bandcamp: some of the most forward thinking work out there.
why, thank you 
i’m super excited to incorporate OT into some forthcoming releases
had been eyeing one for years but always found a reason to wait
i’m really familiar with playful use of mixers and digital fx so when i heard that there’s no need to learn the sequencer/trigs/etc if i wanna just mix and loop incoming audio i was sold
after finding a great deal on 2ndhand mk1 i pounced
on topic
i think people would actually be surprised by the similarities between aleph and octatrack (which makes me happy since octa has spread more widely and more folks got to use one)
octa has more visual feedback in the menu system and more front panel controls while aleph’s built in cv and footswitch jacks added unique hands free options
they both have the same audio i/o and allow users to freely route and assign signal flow + recall complex networks w/ detailed preset management systems
because many ideas from aleph were carried forward into norns development i’m sure i’ll notice similar ties between OT and norns as I use them together
already i feel like the softcut buffer system seems similar to flex machines on OT, no?
