Pioneer Toraiz SP-16

The Lounge Other Gear
#888

I figured out a way to do polyrythm on the Toraiz. It’s obviously not as flexible as if the sequencer had actually supported it, but it’s something.

So here goes -
The Toraiz can resample. So I did this -

I created a few 4 by 4 loops. One hi-hat, one clap, one cymbal. The hi-hat was just one bar, the clap was two, the cymbal four. I resampled them, one by one.

Then, I programmed a kick drum loop in the sequencer and assigned the pattern to be just 11 steps. I threw in some clicky percussion in that one, too, and applied the LFO to the amplitude, to give an idea that it’s sometimes there, sometimes not.

Now, since the SP-16 can launch loops on a quantized beat, I then started the sequencer which played its 11 step weirdo pattern. On top of that, I launched the 1, 2 and 4 bar loops I had resampled live, but not from the sequencer. This lets them run atop the 11 step pattern without retriggering when the pattern retrigged.

Since loops launched like this keep running when you switch patterns, I then created an additional pattern which was 21 steps long, and did similar funky stuff with the kick and percussion in that pattern. I then jumped between the two while the four by four loops kept running on top.

And while it wasn’t “Each track is its own step count”-poly crazy, it got crazy enough for me :slight_smile:

Obviously, this isn’t as flexible as say time signature and step count on an Elektron, but with free running loops combined with the pattern step count, you can get pretty far and in fact, do other things that many sequencers won’t let you, due to the free running nature of loops on top of the sequencer. If you further use the Arranger to string a set of pattern with varying step counts together into a longer sequence, you’re well on your way to the polyrythm freak show, I’d say.

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#889

The illustrious line, on the playback page. Best seen in the highlighted (i.e. selection) part of the sample.

image
image4032×3024 3.48 MB

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#890

I actually spotted that after a while! You have to turn loop on I think? To get the L light on and show the contrast. Thanks for posting a pic.

I noticed, and it’s the same in your pic, the waveforms are slightly different. As in, they cross at slightly different points. I tried unplugging an input for mono sampling but the toraiz doubled the waveform and weirdly gave slightly different waveforms. I thought that maybe the clicks were because I was zero crossing on one channel but not the other.

I tend not to get clicks when I loop now but if I play maybe a bass heavy sample 1 bar and not for a 2nd bar I hear a pop when it stops at the end of the 1st bar. Is that just the nature of bass heavy samples or should zero crossing nullify that?

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#891

@circuitghost:

I’m contemplating pairing my Polyend Tracker with an SP-16. Since you have quite a bit of experience with both, what do you think of that potential combination? I like the interface of the SP-16 and the idea of using it to sample Performance Mode chaos from Tracker. I also like the idea of having a more traditional time-stretching sampler along with the more idiosyncratic possibilities that the Tracker gives you. What do you think? Did you get to use these two side by side at all?

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#892

Hey, thanks for asking. Yep, I did use them side by side and for me, I didn’t think the Tracker brought enough to justify riding shotgun here. The Toraiz has the same basic pattern structure as the Tracker and its song mode works the same way as the Tracker’s, and with its two fx slots and p-locks, there’s not much you can’t do on the Toraiz in comparison with the tracker. With sixteen stereo sample slots and powerful options to resample, is another sampler really what the Toraiz needs? I felt no.

The fluency and joy of working with the Tracker’s interface is of course a unique experience and might be worth the ticket alone to go with the Toraiz, but only for some time, I’d say. I’m only pairing it with synths now, and mostly to loop or sample the results back into the Toraiz as the midi sequencer is running whatever I got going on said synth.

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#893

This is brilliant, and did my head in a little trying to wrap my brain around it. Will try something like this soon.

But since the loops over the top don’t need to all repeat on a standard 1/2/3/4 bar grid, wouldn’t it be interesting if they were say, 3, 5 and 9 bars? Or maybe 17, 24 and 39 steps over the 11 step sequence? That could get crazy real quick.

#894

Yeah, that’d get out of hand quickly :slight_smile: and would be very cool. I don’t think the Toraiz can sample to odd bars, though, it samples to straight 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 and so on. But if you got those kind of loops elsewhere, or just trim it very carefully within the Toraiz, you got gold.

Also, I’m not sure, but I think the actual looper recorder can be quantized to a different resolution. But I’m gonna let that remain hypothetical until I’ve tried it.

2 Likes
#895

Hey everyone! I finally picked up an sp-16, and am just in the process of filling it up with samples. Have any of you thrown any SCW onto it? Ive tried the adventure kids, ones from serum, etc, and they are all not behaving properly…they play as they should at the stock note (bottom left corner) but as soon as you go up the scale, it introduces weird artifacts, like the unit cannot pitch shift the notes properly? However, as soon as you go a note exactly 1 octave higher than the stock pitch, it sounds ok… but any note in between sounds like garbage.

ive tried 600, 1024, and 2048 sample lengths…all perfectly looped at zero crossing.

Update
After doing some more testing…I’m finding a SCWave at 256 samples gives the best range of notes, however it only sounds smooth at +0 , +/-7 , +/-12 semitones… otherwise the aritifacts are introduced

2 Likes
#896

Just got one of these. While there’s a lot I find goofy about it (looks, slightly clunky UI choices), it does sound good. Some combination of the filter / drive / outputs is making my drums knock. And I’m just using the same samples I normally use in Ableton and elsewhere.

I’m sure certain missing features will frustrate me eventually. But as a fairly simple drum box, this thing has something special, warm/wooly vibes that glue drum samples together. Thumbs up

4 Likes
#897

sounds good! I hear this from a lot of people. I have the same experience with Pioneer CDJ players, don’t know what “magic” they actually have, but for whatever reason sound comes out “louder” even though the actual dB’s are the same. Does anybody know what Pioneer actually does there? I cannot believe it’s only a specific type of DAC.

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#898

Same with the DJS1000 . Everything I put into it comes out extra punchy.

Would be interesting if they have another sampler in development.

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#900

I picked one of these up recently, mainly to use as a 32-bar looper triggered from my MC-707, and for this it works great. The Roland can only handle recording four 8-bar loops per project which is a bit crap. I think the SP-16 can handle up to 60 secs per track!

After using it for a few days I think I actually prefer the drum sample side of things of it over the MC-707 as it’s much faster to audition, load and edit/manipulate samples (zero menu diving, excellent screen) and more fun to tweak parameters (much prefer the parameter locking on drum tracks to the motion style recording that Roland have implemented).

One thing I find annoying on the MC-707 is that EVERY time you load a new sample it resets the delay and reverb sends for that pad to 127. It’s so annoying having to adjust this for every sample if you’re trying out different drums to make your own kits. And then after all that effort you can’t even save the kit LOL

Anyway, I think I’m gonna use the SP-16 to free up the drum track on the MC-707. You can send it MIDI CCs to change the Scenes and Patterns in time with the MC-707 Scenes/Clips. Seems to work well, and they sync nice too (with SP-16 as slave).

6 Likes
#901

And 2 nice SH-101s :slight_smile:

#902

If you tap the S or E icon before zooming if will keep the start and end point centred on the screen as you zoom

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#903

Happy owner of a SP-16, the price drop has made this machine very appealing. Immediate, fun, great sound, and this filter… Yeah, Pionneer should have give it a couple more update rounds… 2 things I can’t figure out:

  • in performance, I often find myself wanting to press a pad and mute another. To do so I have to change mode mute/track, this is far from ideal. The doc says you can “pause sample playback of the track” in non-mute mode, but it does not work for me (version 1.6):
    image

  • I miss the digitakt reverb… I can’t find good parameters for the SP-16 reverb, it sounds very metallic… do you guys have managed to use it ? (I use it in SEND mode)

Cheers !

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#904

Hi

I think it will stop the current sample playback but then if the sequencer is running and there is another trigger it will start playing. I find that feature is just for stopping a sample loop continuing to playback after you’ve stopped the sequencer. Could be wrong though

Cheers
Alex

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#905

You’re right ! That was it. Only useful for loops, I guess.

#906

I’m really stuck deciding between the SP-16 and the Octatrack.
I know they are quite a bit different. I can only get one and I see both
as offering me quite a bit for how I do things. I’m also sort of looking at bang per buck…either saving some $ or splurging. Trying to justify either path.

I have other samplers, but nothing with 8 outputs like the SP-16. I could really put that to use. I also have no machines as deep as the OT.
Can the SP-16 accomplish much mangling with its p-locks? There are so few videos online that show the SP-16 making music anywhere close to what I do. It’s a lot of generic dance music in 99% of the videos. I have actually scanned this whole thread, so I have plenty of SP-16 comments flying through my head. I’d probably know in 10 minutes or less, if i could just stand in front of each one.

#907

Live looper’s where it’s at. Use that, and then use the slicer, sequence those and then go for the p-locks. Maybe you can’t go full Octatrack, but whatever you record and launch this way will sound fantastic :blush:

1 Like
#908

Thanks for the response. So that’s a vote for the SP? I have read your many positive comments and checked out your tunes posted in here. Your music gave me more to go on than most other examples out there.

I have an MPC One, Blackbox and SP-404 and I still feel like I am missing the anchor piece. I want the ideal box to funnel these three into, as I use them all regularly to build material. I tend to make loops and song segments in the One and BB and move it all into the 404 for live playing to piece together a track. I tend to work low tech and pretty quick. It’s all about fun for me.

I think the SP and OT are both in the zone for giving me a box to rally around to make my music making time more fun, but I want to get this last purchase right! I am in budget mode for a couple years after this is decided.

It would be nice if there were more SP users out there making music that shows off what it can actually do. Also, how low can the LED lights be set? I need them to be as low as possible!