I really prefer the form factor of the DJS-1000 to go with CDJs and mixer… why oh why did they leave off the Toraiz’s filter… 
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And drive
I liked the DJS form factor as well. But the SP has a couple features I like. Such as the second FX slot
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I use my SP16 as slave to my OT (and a bunch of other gear - the SP16 is at the end of the midi chain) and so far I‘ve had no discernible timing problems.
I do not use Ableton Live / a computer in that setup though, in case you were looking for info on a midi chain involving that.
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So you are correct, you can use a track to send program changes to switch patterns on the Elektron. It’s not just for patch changes.
Edit: make sure the midi ch of the so-16 track is the same as the control channel on the Elektron
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ok guys I’m happy you give hope in there. I will try again today morning
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Thanks @x0x you put me on the right road! By programming and sacrificing a track I can evolve by scene between 2 machines. (It’s like the first trig to pass audio on the OT more or less. ) But only by Scene it doesn’t seem to work by pattern the cc program change stick the same number, but I can’t make it different by scene
(Which would be ok I think - I wasn’t intend to change it as a scene is a track… so the same on the elektron)
I have test to make in more advanced but you lit up light and I thank you for that
And good point on the midi channel choosen for the program change to match the cc on the SP-16…
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Can anyone post some audio examples of music made on the SP-16 that is more
in the abstract hiphop, lofi zone. Perhaps using analog synths and maximizing the
parameter lock functions to interesting result. It’s darn near impossible to find examples
online. This machine might be just right for me, but the stuff I am hearing doesn’t hit
in any realms I have interest in.
@spiralingalbatross I just got this machine a week ago. And I love it. It can do whatever you want it to. I agree with just about everything I’ve read on this forum about it. It’s ridiculously easy to work with. To the point where it’s kind of changing my philosophy about the instruments that I want to work with. While it doesn’t have the experimental facilities or modulation that the OT does, it is so fast to learn that I feel like I’m doing more and better manipulation on the SP 16. Resampling is amazingly fast. Chopping is super easy. Effects are good enough and become really good when P locked. It is loud and clear as hell. I’m really loving it. I haven’t recorded out of it yet, but If I soon the next couple of days, I’ll post it here for you.
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Thanks for that input. I’m sort of in a spiral around the SP and OT. I want them both for somewhat different reasons and would enjoy either one. No way can I justify or afford them both. My hesitation is mainly that I will find out I wanted more mangling than the SP will give. It keeps my attention with all its streamlined functionality.
So you can find the SP16 used for quite cheap if you look around a bit (I got mine for 600€ in mint condition).
The OT I’d get the Mk2 if I’d get one today (I have a grey Mk2) as the few extra buttons make the workflow that bit more immediate - to me it makes a difference.
If you’d force me to choose between the two machines, no doubt I’d pick the Octatrack 10 out of 10 times.
As a matter of fact I’d pick the Octatrack over any other sampler I own —if pressed real hard probably even over any other piece of hardware I own.
It’s that special a machine. Nothing compares really. I think when people say this or that “is basically the same” it usually makes me think that either they don’t own an OT or they don’t know their OT very well.
The Octatrack has some frustrating limitations (“only” 8 tracks, limited RAM/sampling length, “only” four inputs, pickup machines could be better, there are better FX out there etc) but as an instrument (ie a playable sampler beyond that meaning just finger drumming) the whole is so much more than the sum of its parts and to me there is really nothing out there that compares in the world of hardware. At all.
Just saying, I think you have to think hard and disciplined about the actual use case you want a new box for, that should give you the guidance you need. If you’re thinking Octatrack first but then get seduced by the idea that another piece of equipment could do “80% of what the OT does” (or something like that), just get the Octatrack.
If you really are interested in the SP16 first (an AWESOME machine also and lots of fun!) then just get that and if you don’t love it, sell it. If you buy it used, you should have no problem getting the money you paid for it right back.
Hope this helps you.
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Jon1 and Sheild do a great live set with two SP16s and S9/1200s - very good tand worth checking out.
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it’s more on how you like to work, do you work hybrid or dawless… you should choose and not music genre. You can do whatever you want on every groovebox alike setup. For instance what is the most important to you :
- chords progression, track construction + lyrics rap vocals
- groove making + pristine sound
- synthesis is important + drums
- looping + experiment
in those 4 scenario I end up with different groovebox alike and even more than I suggest here… now if you ask me : ok but I want only one piece of equipment I would go MPC Live to facilitate chord progression writing. If you use only sample, I would hesitate between SP16 and OT… my thinking would be then on finger drumming and/or dealing with my Vocal track because of the 64 seconds limitation. And the overall sound, for me it would be SP16 vs OT+HEAT
(for hiphop, lofi zone) I would go Toraiz SP16 + MPC Live
So I would get slicing and program of the sampler philosophy. Especially with Chords writing and Melody, slicing is doable but way better with program (and auto-sampling for program is a breathe). Best combo for music Sketching and Arrangement (Daw philosophy oriented)
OT (with it’s 8 audio + 8 midi) + Polyphonic synth can give a pretty close groovebox alike setup depending if you like to build a song with scene and pattern. (Live philosophy oriented) if I would go this setup I would add the Heat to replace the DSI Filter from the SP16, and warm up the overall.
For Electronic Music, Experiment, Looping and Mangle in Live Performance, the OT is really difficult to replace or to not have it (it’s a power workhorse and brings morphing and conditions on the table : and this is quite something!!!).
sidenote: those 3 are the best sampler to me (sp16, Mpc, OT), that you could get brand new. But only the MPC give you the sampler program with velocity layers (and auto sample to program) and sufficient RAM and SPACE to end up with serious results.
sidenote2: you can perfectly if vocals are not important replace the MPC by a polyphonic synth for your chords duties.
sidenote3: only the MPC (8 tracks audio) and the OT (streamed from the card) will give you the ability to get long audio material side to side with short Patterns. Can be handy for long evolving textures to forget and full rap lyrics (verse, chorus and whatever)
sidenote4: Nothing is more immediate than the SP-16. True fact. But if you want to over-modulate materials yeah yeah > OT (with SP16 you can spread out on the table with your lego because 16 tracks, on the OT prepare to manage the resources but it have it’s own tricks to succeed)
note for me: Damn, I hope I not confused the guy even more 
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Thanks for all those thoughts. Much appreciated.
I own the MPC One and it won’t be leaving my collection. I’m leaning OT, but the SP-16 would save me a significant amount of $ and get me somewhat closer to OT with its p locks.
Whichever item I buy will be running monosynths and my SP-404.
Here is an example of what I do:
https://youtu.be/Gr0-LMV6Hak
Here is a prime example of why the OT appeals to me:
https://youtu.be/uoQ_q-kdQl8
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The SP16 is a bit like a big Modern SP404.And has similarities with the MPC live too.You could say its in between those too and shines for that especially with the filter.At the same time and in somewhat the same way it also shares a staticness about it (which is where the LFOs come in handy)compared to the OT which has a very flexible/immediate/fluid vibe.Considering this the OT will probably add more.
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OK @spiralingalbatross so if you have the MPC One, if you already have mono synths and SP-404
Considering you talk a lot about P-Locking… (I imagine why and for sure I understand doing pass-pass into the sound with a crossfader in multiple ways ! included morphing, and maybe inject “modern way” to doing things…)
You will certainly be disappointed after the absolutely brilliant sound of the toraiz SP16 and its filter … In terms of p-locking the SP16 is to me limited… (one LFO, One touch ribbon) in the usage, because the OT is more streamlined to what it does. and more powerful (3 LFO + Lfo designer, ARP, Crossfader, 4 parts + Trig conditions + Beat repeat sort of and so-on and so-on) If you like to inject life into your groove like “a live performance”
I feel like you’re more into abstract hiphop, so no vocals (or sample words processed), long evolving crunchy LoFI texture will take benefit about the streaming from the card.
as @monk_1 says The SP16 is a bit like a big Modern SP404
It can be a very super lit custom drum-machine (one shots & loops) it can be the drum companion of the MPC One
But now…
I would go OT. Don’t let $ to be an argument into your decision the difference is not that much of 400$ - I would go for an OT MK2 second hand it’s the same price as the SP-16 Brand New. (take it in its first year or two - you still have a warranty)
My arguments was on music Sketching and Arrangement (Daw philosophy oriented) But into the links you give I feel you seeking for a certain enjoyment and only the OT will you offer that mangling, pass-pass and extra experiment that you’re seeking about
My point was to get “slicing” and “program” you already have an MPC One and in your case I would get “slicing” as well but the OT will give you that extra Turntablism and you can’t get that except with the OT (+ for LO-FI i think effects would be more sexy, even the sound of it… SP-16 sound warm and pristine, effects are a bit metallic)
check @ylva materials, even if it’s not your sound. There’s no way to do that with the SP16…
More pass-pass & warping
More finger Drumming
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does the sp-16 have individual track lengths?
individual swing per track?
and does it have negative swing values?
which pads are worse, the Rytm or the toraiz?
does the sp-16 have individual track lengths? - No
individual swing per track? - No
and does it have negative swing values? I don’t think so. I believe it is global, set with a percentage, 0-100%.
which pads are worse, the Rytm or the toraiz? Definitely Rytm
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Are Rytm pads that bad?
I don’t think they are great for intricate finger drumming. I’m not saying they are unusable, but there are a lot of samplers with better pads. What I really like them for, is easing in Perfs and whatnot. I have similar feelings about the M:S pads. They just seemed stiff at first, but then I realized they are great at easing in rolls and whatnot. They both take some time to get used to, but after a while, you get acclimated.
And I think the Toraiz pads are pretty good. Maybe not the best I’ve ever used, but to me they are good sampler pads.