Case is dope! Congrats, I adore my SiX.
The prices are pretty good on these right now. I am thinking about one, but have some questions.
Use case for me would probably sending Busses from the DAW into the mixer and then back in for the Analog summing and buss compression. I have RME interfaces with 16 i/o and use TotalMix, so it is very flexible but all the routing options can also get confusing.
Do you need to use 8 i/o from the interface to this mixer? If so do I have any routing options with my setup so I can send a synth into the mixer to track and yet still send DAW stems into the mixer when I am summing at the end?
Also I have some OTO hardware effects right now that I use for sound design. They are on their own channels and typically I use them as External Effects plugins in Ableton or just route audio to them in TotalMix.
Just trying to figure out ways to wire up this mixer, it is always a challenge to maximize the setup without making it overly complicated.
My hardware setup is currently my RYTM recording into OB via USB. I typically drag the WAV files from OB into Ableton and then send the group through my OTO Boum.
I have an OT going into my interface. I use the OT for sample sequencing mangling and record that into ableton and also send small synths into the OT as well via a thru track. Saves me some i/o and also is really easy to record either into the OT or straight into ableton instead. Using TotalMix I also can route this audio into my OTO hardware if I want.
I also have a couple synths going into the i/o and I also send a drum machine in via a mono i/o. I swap out my drum machines so this is always changing up, but I typically just use mono for my drums.
The other thing I could see myself trying some day is sending out Analog Rytm outs into the SSL. would probably sound pretty great, but for now I am liking OB in and then sending everything back out for hardware processing.
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Knowing my setup above and that I have Totalmix as my virtual patch bay - Is it safe to assume that I can record my hardware through the SSL channels and then also send stems from the DAW through those same SSL channels later on? The goal would be to record those back in all while not having to unplug any cables. In this scenario the SSL i/o would be plugged directly into my RME’s i/o and the hardware into the SSL channels.
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Would it make sense to plug my 2 OTO effects into the SSL and does it have enough FX sends to do so?( I typically run recorded audio in the DAW through these effects.)
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Are you all still happy with this purchase and does it make a noticeable impact to your releases? I have worked on real SSL consoles before but the context was so different. I will say that I use the Brainworx SSL plugs currently on my mixes and the Townhouse Buss comp so I am a fan of the sound. Have to assume the hardware really takes things to another level there. I also always run my buss comp at 4:1 so the baked in settings really do not bother me. At the price these are going at, it seems like something I really should look into.
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With any hybrid setup it comes down to designing a workflow around the options you have available. The Six/Big Six are designed around the concept of super flexible routing, so yes, you can absolutely track into the Six, either with baked in EQ/comp or as raw stems for EQ/comp during mixdown back into the Six. Within the constraints of the available channels you could also conceivably simultaneously track and mix with stems out of a DAW. Whether you have to repatch all depends on the number of channels you’re using.
The Six has two stereo sends and I’ve tried the BIM+BAM as a chain from a single send and also on separate sends. Both work, but it depends on your music. The returns typically come back on the EXT 1/2 channels, but they could also go directly into your interface.
The Six made a giant difference in the both the quality of my recordings and workflow. The pre’s, EQ’s, and comps all sound great and the channels have a tremendous amount of headroom that makes gain staging easy.
The best value upgrade for the Six is a patchbay, which extends the routing flexibility a lot. Your workflow is better aligned with the Big Six because the integrated interface allows audio to seamlessly flow back and forth between live inputs and a DAW on each channel, but it’s obviously a lot more expensive. Still, I think the Six would work for you and I’ve seen used ones going for as low as $900–which is a steal.
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Super helpful, thank you.
Yeah I think I may keep the OTO effects on their own separate RME channels without connecting them to the SSL. Well, I think - the SSL could really help there with some glue, but the trick would be that I quite often use the OTO’s as external FX plugins in Ableton and I’d need to figure out that routing if I changed things up. It may be tricky to get audio from the DAW into the OTO’s. What is cool is that I can currently use the OTO’s as inserts in ableton, which is pretty easy.
And yeah the big six makes the most sense but I was able to get a 6 for $900 as you mentioned, which indeed feels like a no brainer at less than 1/3 the cost. Plus, I don’t think I need a ton of i/o. The Big 6 to me would be a luxury item that I would look at down the road if I like how it goes with the 6.
So the thing is here I have Totalmix which is a virtual patchbay, and I also have a sampson s-patch. The S-patch really is just being used to extend the reach of my turntable and synth. I could track down a 10-15 foot RCA cable and fix that if I needed to use the patch bay. I have definitely been thinking about that option as well.
With Totalmix I can route signals virtually so I can send anything connected to the interface into my OTO boxes for example, or I can send one Box into another. It’s cool but I think with the SSL mixer I’d want to avoid all the conversion from the sound going into the RME and Totalmix and then out to the SSL and then back into the TotalMix. I am not sure how that works though. That is what I am trying to figure out.
I saw this video and it looks like the guy is sending 4 stereo stems out to the SSL from his DAW for mixing/summing. I’d really like to do that as well. So that is 8 outs all into the SSL from the RME I believe. Of course if those are going into the SSL then how do I also send my synth/OT/Turntable in. Pathcbay or TotalMix? That’s what I am trying to figure out.
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I’m really liking tracking through and mixing on the SiX so far. There is some definite “glue” from the circuitry and buss comp that makes me want to record whole subgroups together rather than record each sound individually… maybe I’ll get into summing at some point. But as it is it’s a huge upgrade to my signal chain.
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Nice, so you are using 10 inputs it looks like. Are they all coming straight from your gear and into the mixer?
Also how many outs are you sending back into your interface?
I am tempted to use it’s main and headphone outs instead of my RME, but it may end up confusing the shit out of me, since I have been doing it in Totalmix for so long.
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My interfacing setup is way simpler than yours, with the 2 in/4 out SSL2+ as my only interface. Besides Overbridge I guess, but I haven’t used that for recording audio.
In the first two channels I have four mono instruments (using the Alt1 and 2 inputs to switch in and out) for the most important sounds fidelity-wise: kick (Jomox), bass (Minitaur), monosynth (MS-20) and drone (Lyra-8). The next pairs are Syntakt and Digitone… both have some submixing going into their inputs to get all the other sound sources in there (sampler, modular, turntable, other synths)… Ext1 is fx returns for Meris Polymoon and Mercury7 chained together, and Ext2 is for DAW monitoring.
Also on the Ch1 insert I have the RML 432k distortion pedal (always used on the kick) and their Jekyll n’ Hyde Serpa stereo filter on the main mix insert (also utilized all the time). I love how easy it is on the SiX to have inserts and cue busses switchable, so you can bring things in when you want without having to rewire a bunch of stuff or use bypass on the fx units themselves.
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That sounds like a nice setup there. So many options, it can get pretty overwhelming. I am going to use my OT inputs like you are using your Elektrons - I will send the 0-coast and other little synths into that.
I just will need to figure out if I will use my spare RME inputs for my gear, or figure out how to do it on the SSL while also setting it up for summing.
I’m going through the manual now trying to sort out how the DB25 in and outs work. Thinking those may be pretty important to maximizing this little mixer.
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Yeah, the DB25 thing seems a bit daunting at first, but just keep that channel chart handy and it’s pretty straightforward. There’s actually half of my connections not being used, so room to expand a little bit.
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Ok cool, I may have to grab a couple of these then- https://www.amazon.com/Seismic-Audio-SA-DB8T3-Channel-Interface/dp/B0074FUYWS/ref=pd_lpo_3?pd_rd_i=B0074FUYWS&psc=1
Potentially dumb question - If I am using the DB25s to route into and out of my RME does that leave the input jacks on the SSL available as well or do they go inactive?
Looking at my setup now I have 2 stereo ins for OT, and my Synth and then a mono for drum machine. I can run my turntable directly into my RME, it doesn’t need to go through the SSL mixer. And my OTO boxes can stay going into the RME as well. I can use Totalmix to send the SSL out into them when I want.
I’d basically record the hardware into ableton via the SSL. And then send audio back out into the SSL and into 4 stereo channels to sum. That’s the vision I have in my head for this.
So basically I will have 8 available Line ins and outs for the SSL to connect to the RME. Guessing best way to go here is with 2 DB25s…someone correct me if I am wrong.
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As far as I know nothing on the DB25’s channels replaces another channel, they are truly “additional”.
I think for your use case a simple patchbay that would allow a quick channel swap from tracking mode to summing mode might be the easiest way to go.
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The DB25s don’t inactivate any inputs or outputs on the Six–they’re a way to efficiently include a ton of I/O on a small mixer. Things are going to be a lot clearer once you have the Six in your studio, so you don’t need to 100% solve your workflow in advance. There are multiple ways to accomplish signal routing, and I’d just take things a step at a time. As far as the OTO boxes, I would worry at all about an extra AD/DA conversion if that makes sense for you. You have an excellent interface and the OTO boxes have digital processing to make them sound vintage anyway.
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Ok nice. Well I agree that it will make more sense when I have it, but I am thinking ahead a little because I need to record some guitars for a client this week and I wouldn’t mind using the SSL for that and then I need to mix a track right after that and I’d like to sum via the SSL. So I’d like to get some cables in here to do it.
If I can use the channel inputs of the SSL for my gear plus have the DB25 going in from my 8 RME outs, that could be a perfect start. If I have this correctly, that means I could record my gear in, send into the SSL and through it’s main outs to my RME. Then also be able to send out 4 stereo stems from ableton when I want to sum mix.
Also means (I think) that if I plugged the DB125 1/4 jacks to a patch bay before the RME outs hit it, that I could theoretically patch my gear in via the front as well if I wanted to. So I would have another option besides overbridge to record my RYTM in via the SSL.
If this is all correct then I know what I need to get to start with this setup. Only thing I’d need to figure out is how to route the DAW/Mac audio so I don’t get feedback loops.
Honestly, I’m not sure I would record a client on a piece of gear I don’t know, haven’t used and I’m in the middle of setting up. The SSL are great, but it’s not going to change your clients recording enough to warrant a possible nightmare if you can’t get it all working.
Check out the manual quick guide a few times. That’s got the list of DB25 in/outs. There are so many possible routing options!
But no mater what you do, yes, get the DB25 cables as these open the SiX up massively. (They’re Tascam spec FYI)
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I have two. Second pic is my mixing one all the gadgets go in to it. Then XLR out to the second unit which is on my mixtering chain.
I particularly like bus B so I can send my main outs to record.
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- Yes
- Yes
- Yes
I suggest routing SiX between RME Outs to In’s and using at least 1 DB-25 so you can access the ALT inputs on Channels 1&2.
Coupled with TotalMix, you could run any track or current hardware input through its normal channel, SiX, both OTO’s, and record it all separately in addition to a Master Bus compressed mix. It would require two additional cables:
RME OUTS to SiX ins (1,2,ALT1&2, 3/4, 5/6)
SiX Cues to OTO Machines
OTO Machines back to RME, then OTO Machines back to SSL EXT 1 &2
SiX OUTS to RME:
1&2 DB25 send, Mix B L+R, Master L+R
This is probably where I’d start, since it turns SiX into an analog processor+2 mic preamps, assuming that the 8 I/O you have are free.
You can track things the way ( I think ) you normally do, while adding the channels from SiX recorded separately for comparison / level matching. The front panel inputs are also free for microphones or guitars and are already patched in, so there would be no need to disconnect anything.
SiX adds a lot to my workflow. I’m glad I added it. I record acoustic & electronic drums for people, and I always end up using it. Being able to hit the Pre’s and send them separately to individual channels on my interface while simultaneously recording a stereo “crunchy” bus compressed version from the main out is huge.
It’s a useful device:
SCG
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Ill be fine, I have my RME pres all set up ands running for years now so I am good to go for recording sessions regardless. Plus I should have a day before I record to setup. It’s a remote session as well.
Mainly figuring out if I want to add my patch bay or not. I think I will do that when things settle down so I can plug other gear into the front when needed.
Good to know on the DB25s… I just got 1 for the SSL ins and will exapnd the outs next.
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This is what I needed, thank you. I do have 8 I/O I can free up.
I almost never record more than 1 piece of hardware at a time, and in the past with a different setup I was using a Mackie 1604 and recording it’s stereo outs.
The SSL Ins from the DB25 list 6 total. So for the 7th and 8th in I would need to wire from the RME out directly into the SSL, correct?
Also in this scenario I am guessing I would route my Mac’s audio out of TotalMix still and into the main speakers, or use TotalMix to route the audio into the SSL and into say, my Ocatrack for sampling.
Down the road I was considering bringing my patchbay into the mix so I could quickly patch in my RYTM sometimes and record some of it’s individual outs when I needed to. I still do not fully trust Overbridge, so it’s nice to have another option there.
Looking like with another D25 on the SSL outs I can multitrack in my drum machines if I wanted to. That would be pretty sick, even if I can just get 6 separate channels going in. The Rytm indi outs are pretty low volume so I could drive them pretty hard in the SSL if I wanted and still have plenty of headroom.
Looks like the DB25 will give 8 outs. That’s huge.
My favorite thing about this mixer beyond its sound / headroom is its flexibility.
Here are two routings I thought up, one using your available 8x8 IO and another if you can manage 12 inputs.
Just as I was posting this, I re-read your reply, and realized I’d forgotten Octatrack. You could feed Octatrack from Mix B.
I’d probably go for the B setup because of the way I work. It would be possible to Mixdown several stems through the bus comp while tracking them through the bus comp, and getting TotalMix involved, track a group of stems through one or both OTO Machines and record them separately from the main bus compressed mix, or send the OTO Machines into Octatrack for resampling simultaneously.
The routing possibilities are many.
SCG
Proposed SiX Routing A.pdf (45.6 KB)
Proposed SiX Routing B.pdf (83.0 KB)
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I just saw this post and wow, very deep and helpful, thank you! I am not fully getting it just yet, but I am making progress. What I don’t fully get is in the spreadsheet, for excample you have channel 1 of the SSL and Channel 2 going into RME 1 and 2 - Does the order matter since the manual on page 27 for the Db25 has Main L and R as the first 2 channels and I believe that is how I wired mine up.
Still starting to wrap my head around this mixerHere is what I have done so far, I can make changes if needed. This is not complete by any means, but I feel like I am maybe close :
I have 2 DB25s from the SSL going into my half normaled patchbay. They flow via patch cables into my RME in 1-8 and out 1-8. Patchbay Channels 1-8 are inputs to the SSL (DB25 in). I am going to use these to quickly patch in my Rytm individual outs when needed.
Also going into the actual inputs (the top jacks) on the SSL are so far ch1 - another drum machines main mono out. ch2 - bass guitar. ch3/4 - Octatrack stereo outs 5/6 - synth stereo outs. For now, I have both OTO outs going into the external inputs.
What I want to do - 1. Monitor everything I’d like to hear when I am composing. That seems pretty straightforward. 2. Plug in Analog Rytm outs maybe into the patchbay channels that the synth uses and override that so I can hear the rytm and OT together. That is mainly how I compose, with those 2 machines. 3. Patch rytm fully into the patchbay when it is time to record and get all of it’s parts in, then unpatch and record Ot parts then synth.
Recording workflow for me - patch Rytm into patchbay which will send to 6 SSL inputs and record the takes into 6 separate tracks in the DAW. Unpatch rytm. Record Octatrack parts next. Do the same with any synth. Recording done.
Now I want to use the OTO’s. I’d like to run some tracks through the OTO delay and print some takes of that. I was thinking about sending all the drums into the OTO Boum, and printing a stereo take but I also want to set up my mix first by sending all the tracks from the DAW into 4 stereo busses (thinking Drums, synths, Vocals, Bass) in the SSL, basically summing and gluing through the G compressor while I mix. Additionally, I’d like to send the drum buss on the SSL into the Boum (preferably as an insert since it has a Mix knob) and print that stereo take. I would then mute all the un processed drums and send the boum stereo take into the drum buss. Would then repeat the process for the bass. And then I would pretty much be done. Just need to make sure I wire up the OTO’s properly, still not sure on that.
Should add that my DAW/Mac audio is piping through my other RME interface. I also am still sending audio for sampling to my OT through the same interface. I have 2 RMEs connected via ADAT, both 8 i/o and I dedicated one to the SSL. Adding Totalmix in makes this a bit confusing. That is where I am a little thrown off even though I have been routing through Totalmix for a few years. Adding in a mixer always complicates things until I get my head around it.
I was able to record my bass for a session I needed to complete. That’s pretty easy though. I sent channel 2 directly into the DAW and did not use the G buss. Just a touch of EQ and compression and it was good to go. This mixer does sound really, really, really good.