Syntakt vs MC-101?

tl;dr: I’m trying to choose which one to keep and it’s really hard. Both have pros and cons and I may keep - or sell - both. Perhaps my (long!) ramblings can serve as a product comparison review to anyone else out there choosing their first (or second) groovebox.

This may be a slightly ridiculous comparison and choice, but I currently own both the Syntakt and the MC-101 and I’ve decided I need to downsize my hardware setup and focus more on music making again by leveraging the DAW as the main production center instead of my MPC. I had a really good run with the MPC but I feel done with that now. I also have a couple of other hardware synths that are just collecting dust and probably need to go as well.

Still, I find hardware to be inspiring to use and after going through a number of simpler/more focused grooveboxes over the years, I’ve ended up with these two, and I’m trying to decide which one of them to keep and which to sell. The goal is to have one fun toy that can work as an inspirational device to generate new song ideas and sketches to be recorded into the DAW for final song arrangement, structure and mixing. In that process, depending on the sound of the material from the groovebox, I may keep or replace the individual tracks with new stuff in the DAW.

At the surface level, the Syntakt and MC-101 are both similar in that they’re both an interesting combination of groovebox, drum machine, sequencer, and synthesizer. But they’re also very different from one another.

The MC-101 has its liberating battery-powered portability, light and compact size, amazing Zencore synth engine - which is now surprisingly accessible too with the new 1.8 update - samples playback support, and a bunch of fun live performance tweaks like [Track]+[<], Scatter and Last Step that sometimes give you new ideas on how the song might develop. It also even resamples itself with some roundabout workflow steps via Clips tracks. And let’s not forget that it comes with a set of amazing effects, more than you’d think is possible at this size and price point: the world-famous Juno+JX chorus, distortions, amp simulators, multiband compressors, saturators, lofi effects, delays, reverbs, etc etc. It’s just so capable it’s hard to believe!

All in all, I find it to be a lovely grab-and-go kind of device that powers on and loads the most recent project in ten seconds and you’re off making music. It is AA battery powered and can also run via a USB powerbank, making it ultra portable. It’s also pretty straightforward to record into the DAW and can send both midi and per-track audio via USB.

On its downsides, it’s a finicky device, particularly the sequencer which is so much slower to program compared to the Syntakt. It’s also plasticky, doesn’t have the clever Elektron sequencer logic, is limited to four tracks (which you can workaround with some Looper work, but still), and, subjectively, it’s kind of cheap looking.

Enter the Syntakt. On paper, it’s already a more exciting device (granted, at twice the cost of the MC-101): analog VCOs, drum synthesis, 12 tracks in total, an amazing build quality, great looks (subjectively speaking), a super quick workflow (try copy+pasting 8 trig notes in the sequencer and then do the same on the MC-101 - it’s a night and day difference) and a workflow design that invites you to explore, mess up, revert, try again and stumble on gold. The sequencer lets you create almost self-generating music, the reverb sounds great, and there’s the analog effects block which adds some warmth and grit when you need it. The synth engine(s) are all very immediate and let you experiment on the fly and create movement in your music by just twisting a knob.

I don’t know, but there’s just something about the Syntakt that tickles me, it feels like entering another world. Yes, I did read the marketing material and maybe it colored me, but it does feel like the Syntakt has some otherworldly vibe to it. :blush: In my time evaluating the Syntakt more deeply in these last couple of days, I ended up with a new song sketch that I enjoyed and will record into the DAW later on.

But then there are plenty of downsides compared to the MC-101. First of all, I can’t help but feeling that the overall sound is a lot more limited. While the synth “machines” are tweakable, I find it hard to dial in really lush sounds. There is no chorus, no gritty distortion (the overdrive is actually pretty gentle), there’s no compressor, there are no lofi effects, and there’s no way to layer any sound with samples. The biggest omission of all is some form of polyphony, and an arpeggiator. I owned a Digitone last year and loved the way it implemented this. It’s frustrating that Syntakt doesn’t offer the same voice stealing and arp functionality as the Digitone. The Digitone also has a great chorus.

I’ve spend a few hours on sound design on the Syntakt to see if I can fill some more of my perceived gaps in the palette and I was able to approach some Juno/Jupiter sounds using the excellent SY Bits machine, and overall I’d say it does a good job at the traditional subtractive synthesis, at least to the point where all the basic sounds are there. But yeah, there’s the icing on the cake that’s missing. Honestly, remove the chorus from many of the MC-101 presets and the magic is gone. Meaning, a great chorus makes all the difference! The Digitone tickled me more in that sense and could do sweet sounding pads that the Syntakt just can’t approach without sacrificing several tracks and accepting tedious programming across those tracks.

But also, the lofi, compressors, distortion - they all make a huge difference with adding punch, warmth and tightness to drums and I honestly find Syntakt to sound thin on its own without putting a lot of work into it. Even the stock patterns/songs come with layered kicks (eg using two tracks to create a punchy kick sound), which suggests that this thing isn’t really beefy out of the box. If I jam on my Syntakt connected to the DAW, I tend to keep a parallel mix bus with some gritty, dirty distorted compression playing live so I can get into the groove more quickly. On the MC-101, I don’t have to.

And let’s not forget about portability, which is important to me. I can’t move around the house with the Syntakt without also carrying with me the power brick and cord. The MC-101 is so easy to grab in comparison, and it makes a difference.

One last con of the Syntakt is Overbridge. It could be a problem with my setup (MacBook Air 2021 and Reason 10) but things slow down considerably when recording into the DAW, to the point where twisting a knob can have up to a 0.5 second lag, which ruins the vibe entirely. Also, I couldn’t figure out how to capture the knob movements as automation lanes in the DAW, and when I tried to do it manually, things slowed down even more. The MC-101 has no problems sending all midi information to the DAW and then letting itself be sequenced from the DAW from thereon out, making it really simple to fine-tune things. With the Syntakt, I feel like I’m better off just making all those tweaks directly in the patterns on the Syntakt instead and not mess with trying to control things from the DAW.

All in all though, I feel I’m having more fun with the Syntakt. I don’t think about the workflow because it’s so seamless it never gets in my way. Instead, I quickly lay down the ideas and worry about sound design later. Whereas on the MC-101, I usually start with browsing for an amazing synth preset and then I lay down ideas based on that particular sound, and then the workflow gets in the way more. I find myself live recording more on the MC-101 to avoid the finicky step sequencer workflow. I also feel like the sequences I make on the Syntakt become more unique and different from what I’d sequence in the DAW. The p-locks offer so much creativity that a traditional filter sweep automation can’t approach.

The number of tracks on the Syntakt means I don’t worry about running out of tracks, whereas on the MC-101, I have room for drums, bass, a lead and a pad or arp, and then the tracks are filled. You can work around this by switching to sounds per clip and adding new clips to create B sections of the song with new phrases, or by resampling stuff and putting them onto drum pads, so it’s not a big deal in the end. In fact, maybe it’s good that the tracks are limited since my use case is to record into the DAW and finish up the song structure there? The Syntakt’s generous track counts means it’s possible to build nearly complete tracks on it. Pros and cons, really. The Digitone was as limited as the MC-101 in that sense, if not more given the lack of polyphony. Then again, that forced you to be more deliberate with drum loop design.

In summary, I guess I’m just reflecting on how hard it is for me to choose one over the other. I may end up keeping both because they are so different in what they’re able to generate. But I wish I could choose to keep just one because I want to spend more time making music and less time just playing around. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!

7 Likes

Hi, I read a fair amount of that. I recently sold my mc-101, my 2nd, because I just couldn’t get used to the menu divy workflow and I wasn’t too keen on the sequencing/chaining either but I haven’t written off the 707.

I do agree that the syntakt offers less in terms of sound design.

If I was in your position and wanted just one box, I would probably sell both and get a digitone. Good luck :+1:

3 Likes

It’s like you’re reading my mind! Although I guess I did compare against the Digitone somewhat in the text so I’m sure I more than hinted at my fondness for it.

Curious what makes you suggest it though, if you want to share your thoughts?

But yes, it may be a slightly better fit for me. The sounds coming from the Digitone are equally otherworldly to my ears, but in a more pleasing, nuanced, rich way. It was my gateway drug into hardware about two years ago and I still kind of regret selling it.

On paper, the Syntakt tickles me more with its analog flirts and the 12-track layout. It makes for a faster process of laying down a track, and it makes things like having drums + bass + pad + arp + lead + some atmospheric effects entirely possible - if you accept the lack of polyphony. But in all honesty, it’s the digital tracks that sound pleasing to my ears, particularly SY Bits. The analog VCOs are nothing special to me, I don’t find them to be particularly versatile other than as better sounding kicks, snares and rides/hats.

Another pro of the Digitone is that it can record its four tracks via Overbridge in stereo, so you can go wild with p-locked panning on hi hats and percs without having to re-program them in the DAW after recording.

Lastly, it’s more power efficient and can more easily run off of a powerbank and birdcord (the Syntakt will require a more potent PD-compatible powerbank).

What would I miss in the end? Aside from the track count, honestly, it’s that fuzzy feeling of analog warmth and the ability to experiment with the FX block. And, to a degree, its sleek looks and color palette which I find more pleasing to look at than the Digitone. I know, it’s so superficial that I’m embarrassed for admitting it, but I’m also the kind of guy that fundamentally believe that I made more music on my MPC One because I went with the Retro Edition. :joy:

Perhaps more importantly though, because Syntakt is the newest kid on the block and considering Elektron’s history, I bet it will come with a bunch of interesting firmware updates that will make it even more versatile. For example, those trig modifiers feel like they’re begging for more utility, and the FX block feels largely misunderstood as a sidechain effect in most cases. I feel that Syntakt has an exciting path ahead of it and who knows, maybe they’ll throw in the Digitone voice stealing, arp and chorus at some point? I know how it goes, you shouldn’t buy hardware based on hopes for firmware updates, but in this case, we’re talking about Elektron after all. It’s inevitable that they’ll keep improving on their new “mid-tier flagship device” over the coming years.

1 Like

keep both, sequence the MC101 from the syntakt.

5 Likes

I can’t completely compare as I have a 707 rather than a 101, but I found the FX and synths on the 707 to be on a completely different level from the Syntakt where I really struggled to get decent sounds.

The sequencer is way more powerful on the Syntakt but I found it’s getting unpleasantly hot was really off-putting.

From reading your posts you clearly like both devices so I struggle to see why you are selling one.

It’s a good idea in theory, but I probably should have underscored how important portability is to me. I like to curl up in the couch and noodle on a song, and if I have to mess with two devices and interconnected cables and stuff, I can might as well just go straight to the studio and DAW.

3 Likes

I’d agree entirely. The sounds from the 101/707 and the sequencer of the Syntakt would have been something indeed. :blush:

As a matter of fact, as @Zac already suggested above, perhaps the perfect middle ground is the Digitone. It’s definitely more sweet-sounding than the Syntakt to my ears, though doesn’t offer the warmth of neither analog nor that Roland vibe. One thing’s for sure, there is no one groovebox/multi-timbred synth to rule them all!

I guess it’s mostly a matter of focus. I’d like to scale down my setup and focus more on making music and less on GAS and tinkering with new gear. But it’s also for financial reasons, I feel I got a little excessive in the past 12 months and would like to keep my overall synth budget within more reasonable margins.

i sold the 101 as i found the workflow infuriating. but sounds like you’ve got More of a handle on it. Personally I think the argument becomes a lot more conclusive when you start sequencing a couple of nice warm ipad synths from the syntakt. still a v compact setup but a world of possibilities

1 Like

Only marginally. :blush: There’s no getting around the fact that the workflow is infuriating at times, and nowhere near as smooth and quick as the Elektron boxes, but I’ve gotten fairly comfortable with the basics. Sound design is surprisingly straightforward given the complexity. Easy to trip up though and not at all “fun”. Being able to recreate a faithful copy of the JX-08’s A34 preset is, however, amazing!

Glad that’s working for you! Personally I want just one box and as few cables as possible when noodling (preferably just the headphones), so I want one single box. At least one at a time - there’s the possibility that I’ll end up keeping both here.

2 Likes

:+1:

Also … MC-101 is nicely transportable anywhere … weekends away … coffee shop.

1 Like

Before you respond to this thread @ccmp, I know what you’ll suggest: iPad and Ableton. :joy::orange_heart:

Edit: I’m delightfully surprised. Thank you for your thoughtful contribution to the thread. :pray:

1 Like

It is indeed, and it sounds great. Just not that fun to work with in my humble opinion, and doesn’t lead to nearly as many happy accidents as that Elektron sequencer and ctrl+all does.

I agree with Syntakt vs MC101 = Digitone.

I have an MC707 that I use as a sound module, so that’s my reference. I’ve got a Syntakt too that I’m about to sell.

I find the Digitone (and A4mk2) to be the most musically inspiring, both in terms of the sonics they give and the melodic approach rather than rhythmic (like the Syntakt).

Monophonic tracks are just too limited to get melodically/musically creative with for me… and I just find the ST functional and fun rather than it feeling like an instrument the way the Digitone does.

With a Digitone (or A4), I can happily sit with it solo and create things I really like, or I can sit with it plugged into my Force/MPC and grab multiple clips/parts that I really like, or have it in the DAW, and, yes, really like what comes out.

Reading this thread has made my mind up on selling the Syntakt.
I can’t bring myself to sell the MC707 because of what it gives/brings, but I don’t enjoy the workflow. I always flip between using it or switching to a dedicated desktop synth (Prophet Rev2 usually), which is much more satisfying to use.

4 Likes

Yeah, it may be the perfect middle ground.

That’s it really. I’m much more of a melody kind of composer, I almost never start with the drums, and when I do, I tend to feel cornered and the creative flow dies off. I’m much more comfortable with making music that is based on the melodies and harmony first.

You can do both on the Syntakt of course but as you say, it’s much more tedious without polyphony.

Same for me. I made so many things I loved on the Digitone. The reason I got stuck then was because I wasn’t embracing the hybrid workflow but I feel much more comfortable with that today. Indeed, what comes out of the Digitone sounds really good.

Glad my ramblings could help you with your own decision process! Maybe I’ll end up doing the same.

You don’t think Elektron will eventually add voice stealing from the Digitone though? Seems likely given the number of people wishing for it in this forum (assuming they’re paying attention to customer feedback).

Perhaps I could justify keeping the MC-101 purely as a sound module if I switch the Syntakt to the Digitone. After all, they both offer something completely unique to the table. I struggle to recreate the lush Roland sounds on anything outside of actual Roland gear. Given that I paid €300 for my MC-101, it’s kind of a steal.

1 Like

I cannot see a MC-101 being in the way. With it’s size and price it has a value, even when you use it 10 times a year. Cannot think of anything for $300 used that brings so much (if you’re into Roland sound).
The DN is one of the few instruments on my wishlist (wishlist is restricted by budget, otherwise the OB-X8 would be on it), great sound indeed. I know I would use it a lot.
I don’t get the need to sell so much stuff, keep it and use it. For me it takes years to really get everything out of a synth, in various genres. If I like the basic tone I will stick with it for years (probably longer).

2 Likes

I actually love the 101. The sounds, the faders, the scatter fx and the global fx. The whole package is so awesome. Especially after the 1.8 update, that opened up the whole synth engine. This with the patch randomizer is just an infinite sound pool.
What I also love is the ability to export and import clips, clips includes notes & patches. Sometimes I work on a little project and I compose a nice melodie, but does not suite my current project, I can just export it and later load it up in a new project (or other existing project). This feature has become invaluable for me.

2 Likes

@djst thank you for the thoughtful rundown on these two boxes. It was a good read.

I would be so interested to see what you made of an op-z. Did you ever try one?

I’m not trying to convert you, but it is ultraportable, great sequencer, plenty of tracks, decent polyphony, blah blah blah. However the synth engines are pretty weak so thankfully it can sample (into its limited memory).

I say that because I was initially split between an op-z and 101, and still contemplate getting a 101. And secondly, I have wondered if the Syntakt is like a big brother of the op-z. Perhaps the op-z is the worst/best of both worlds :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

I’m just a hobbyist and don’t have much time for music making so sometimes think the immediacy of sounds and portability from the 101 would be a good fit, but this thread isn’t about me :laughing:

2 Likes

My opinion is not favourable toward MC-101.
It’s a definitely a nice-looking box with a lot of potential on paper, but not working a package.
Like - good sounding JV-inherited engine, but non-editable (except several basic parameters).
A lot of effects - but buried in the menus.

My biggest struggles were the menu and project structure (absolutely unintutive navigation) and the sequencer. I got used to the Elektron’s workflow, it’s quite natural, I got used to jamming and composing and editing on a fly (A4, Octa, MnM). Here I did not even finish any usable loop or pattern in several months. Roland has their own views on how the sequencing should look for a musician and for me it looks they did not evolve much from the programming of tb303’s or anything digital from that era.

Maybe other would disagree. But I did not understand the purpose of this box, it’s not making a music making easier or distracts from the PC. Any Volca gives much more pleasure and actual results. The 707 version is looking more than an instrument to invest into.

The only thing I miss is the Scatter effects. But you cannot apply them to the incoming sound (and standalone Aira modules are discontinued and thus rare and pricey).

I agree and, thinking this through, I’m in no rush to sell it because it’s an excellent sound module even when disregarding the sequencing capabilities. I agree, it’s hard to find anything that provides as much value for that kind of money.

You said it yourself though. :blush: It’s the same for me, I’m restricted by my budget and I feel I bought too much over the last 12 months. But it’s also a question of focus. You your point, it takes a lot of time to get everything out of a synth, and it doesn’t help when you bought 4 synths in less than a year. Downsizing and focusing on one or two pieces of gear is better for my overall enjoyment and productivity.

It’s indeed an extremely potent little devil. :blush:

That’s a good tip. I just designed two new sound presets and saved them into a project. Maybe I should save sound presets as clips instead? This is one of the things they I don’t like about the MC-101, the lack of a proper preset library. I’d like to be able to preview my own patterns as easily as I can preview the stock patterns.