The Overbridge Problem

Elektron Software Overbridge
#1

Another thread about this? Bear with me here. :slight_smile:

So every time I see the topic of Overbridge come up, it seem people are quickly divided into two camps; the “Elektron did nothing wrong” camp, and the “Elektron should be sued” camp. I thought I’d try to be a little bit more constructive.

Now, when I first bought Digitakt I had been away from Elektron since around 2005 when I sold my MonoMachine, so I had no idea about any “ongoing jokes about Overbridge” or what-not. I checked out demos on the internet, read the specs, and bought it. I of course assumed that the specs where correct and truthful.

That being said though, the reason I got back into Elektron stuff was to get away from DAWs and all the crippling problems that they bring. (At least for me.) So, I wasn’t really that concerned about Overbridge being late. Now, of course I understand that there are many users, probably a majority, who do work with a DAW, to whom this is a major setback and betrayal. Believe me I understand; When I bought my Virus TI2 I was only using DAWs and the Total Integration system was THE main point of buying it. So as we can see, this is a very complex issue, with different “weight” and meaning to different people.

And now for the constructive part:

I think the major problem with Elektron in this issue is their “all or nothing” approach. I bet they would stave of a lot of criticism if they brought out Overbridge in increments. Focus on one function at a time. This is classical management theory: tackle a huge problem by breaking it down into smaller manageable problems.

Start with a backup and project management tool. In this day and age when even your cell phone has a backup function, it’s the least you can ask for, and should be a fairly quick affair for a skilled programmer.

Then proceed to making individual output streaming work. No total DAW integration stuff, no VSTs, just audio streaming of individual outputs. This would no doubt silence a huge portion of the criticism, since it solves another real and tangible problem.

Then, and only then, proceed with the full Total Integration, VSTs, the full Overbridge treatment, as it were. The cherry on top.

Now maybe, for some reason I’m not aware of, doing it this way is impossible. I don’t know. But I thought I’d bring it up as a suggestion, because now my Digitakt is full, and it seems the only current project management plan would be to buy another Digitakt. And that’s not going to happen. :slight_smile: I imagine that heavy sample usage has put many AR mk II users in the same boat.

So what do you think, would you guys agree that Elektron should break down the Overbridge problem into smaller chunks?

“All problems become smaller when you confront them instead of dodging them.”
– William F. Halsey

#2

Curious about this one, do you mean the Drive is full of samples?

#3

Yup.

#4

I would think at this stage the last thing Elektron need is a new rollout plan for Overbridge. That would probably slow down the process even more

2 Likes
#5

I had similar thoughts about this. Without knowing a single thing about the internal workings of the company - they don’t appear to be practising Agile software development. I believe what you’re talking about ( essentially ) is releasing what’s called a “minimum viable product” and then updating / adding features rapidly and often. They could have two branches of Overbridge - stable and testing. Those who are willing to wait and want stability would have one option and those who want features and are OK living on the edge would have another. I’m not a coder or developer, but FWIW this makes sense to me, at least from anything but a pure business perspective.

#6

In that case, maybe they should hire a new developer to just create a couple of stopgap tools. Having been a programmer, I can attest to the fact that creating a backup and project management app is not a very complicated or time consuming thing for a skilled developer. The cost of a project based salary for the programmer should be easily offset by the goodwill it would create.

#7

That could certainly be one way to go. Beta testing is something they need to deal with anyway.

#8

The signs are definitely there. Add on top of that the fact we’re talking about developing an equally complex and mission critical piece of software in a company that is not a software company makes it all the more astonishing that nobody jumped up in one of the meetings where this was decided and shouted “bulls#t!”.

#9

For me the first two would tick all the boxes. I don’t need vst control.

  1. I need to be able to back up.
    The way I have always worked with my samplers is:
    Work on a project with no worry of filling space or special sample management. Sample whatever whenever. Finish song. Back up machine, wipe the slate clean. Start again. Copy back up to the cloud and hard drives. Retrieve project back up when it comes time to mix stems.

Which brings me to number 2

  1. Digitakt and Digitone both only have stereo outs, and have been intentionally designed (crippled?) this way because of OB. I chose to accept this limitation because it fits the way I work. I don’t need OB while making music. Only when tracking to my DAW. Now… I cannot (as people have kindly suggested) track each channel individually, party because of a lack of song mode, but mainly because I make these patterns to ‘perform’ the patterns. I don’t want to have static loops in my DAW, that defeats the whole purpose. Bring into the problem features like cntrl+All and the sends and there is no way I am ever going to be able to replicate a 5min performance 8 times while only being able to hear one track at a time. For me I really need OB. I’m stuck right now without it. I would be happy if I could just stream those 8-10 channels into my DAW.
    From what I understand the way Elektron do streaming is via their vst so streaming won’t come until vst does. Vst won’t come until audio driver is rewritten.

Working for a software company, I don’t hold that much hope we will see OB this year.

But please Elektron let me backup.

2 Likes
#10

Anything would be appreciated at this point. Even just a desktop shortcut.

3 Likes
#11

That was an excellent summary. :slight_smile: Backup is soooo important.

2 Likes
#12

I wonder if the mini boxes will have the full bandwidth streaming of the papa bear boxes ? Sometimes I think what is happening now is a kindve carry over from when they released Overbridge in the first place. Maybe most newcomers don’t know, but when it was first announced for the Analog Four it was a secret, and not a soul new it even had an audio interface built into it, let alone the full plugin features etc. so when it was announced it was kindve “holy shit” but also there was a fair bit of development time expected between that announcement and its final delivery. In some ways I think this process of sort of, announce, then develop later, kindve carried over from OB mk1. Maybe not intentionally, but perhaps that first release of OB gave Elektron the feeling that this was an ok way to manage things - and for the first time round it may have been. But Overbridge isn’t a secret anymore. I think they had to announce it, because the question would have been “do these boxes have Overbridge”. Perhaps as others have suggested, it may have been better not to announce OB at all. Or, do the right thing, which is release the product with Overbridge fully developed at release. I truly hope people love Overbridge. But I’m worried it won’t meet people’s lofty expectations of it, or its limitations will generate a further flood of disappointed posts. I know in OB1 it was kindve janky dealing with bandwidth limitations all the time. I think its unfortunate it’s taken so long but I do believe they are working their asses off to get it out and when it’s released is when I’ll finally buy one of these bad boys

#13

I dont understand why elektron released the Digitone bevore the release of Overbridge 2. And with the new mk2 devices there is a lot to do with os bugfixing isnt it?

#14

Because they are not a charity but a commercial enterprise that needs to generate revenue for it’s owners.

#15

Run strictly according to The Rules of Acquisition. :smiley:

1 Like
#16

It’s a problem. Not a big one because who really cares, but a few thousand techno musicians, but I feel ripped off and lied to. Done w/ Elektron! The only reason I stick around here is…well no idea really, morbid curiosity really.

2 Likes
#17

I love the idea of smaller tools/aspects of OB instead of one giant, “who knows when it’s ready” achievement.
I never understood the GUI aspect, without a sequencer built in, I still need to be in front of my device so instead of looking at one small screen, I’m dividing my attention between two. The only times I actually use OB is when I’m traveling and don’t want to carry an audio interface with me. Treating the AR as an actual interface would’ve been completely fine with me but I do understand it’s not perfect for everyone. But seriously, if you are willing to put down $1500 for a drum machine to make music, you haven’t gotten an interface already?

Just give us a backup system and audio streaming. Everything else is just niche stuff.
This whole affair has been quite disappointing. My AR mk1 is hitting 3 years and still no way to do a full backup.

2 Likes
#18

Oh, you can’t back up the AR mkI either? I didn’t know that. That’s disheartening to hear.

#19

yes, you can backup, but only project by project which is a hassle and unpleasent instead of having a backup all function

#20

Also if I understand correctly, the sample slots will not be backed up, which means that it’s a good idea to a) either have a stringent system to sample allocation or b) keep a list of the sample slots, because for sample heavy projects it will be a lot of work to recreate the previous state.