Possibly the SP-16 strength is that it isn’t a MPC Live, but more like a updated MPC2000xl 
Major downside is only 16 samples per scene.
Very fast to work on once you get it, a bit limited, but great sound, with determination anyone could make release quality tracks on it I think.
Support seems lacking, on the flipside it seems reliable/not too bug ridden.
Yes totally.
I even think at some point to take a dj approach to a real live stems with 2 DJS1000 and I think they done Toraiz exactly for that purpose. they just forget producers nowadays need really more than that in the studio. But from the stage perspective it’s killer devices
PS: don’t forget Single Cycle Waveform with the Toraiz as well as with any sampler really. And an iPhone/ipad couple with a soundcard with Animoog, SynthMaster, TC11, SynthDrum kick, RuisemakerNoir, Impaktor and you can enhance the missed Synthesis part of the SP16 (or other tools but “on the go” difficult to put something on the side of the SP16 it’s already massive… a phone near the SP16 or an iPad stand better…)
Yeah, sorry for the confusion. Just found the specifications in the Pioneer forum, I got it all wrong just looking at specifications through dealers:
“The SP-16 has 8GB of internal memory (flash ROM) and 256MB RAM for audio samples.”
For much deeper infos:
Hi there,
Thought I’d add that I use the DJS1000 to DJ with - mostly to add drums live and having the pitch fader is sweet as I never use sync.
I did just start making tracks using the DJS and found it quite straight forward - although a bit large.
When tracks are formalided inside djs, did you export them, if it’s the case, do you resample all or transfert the differents samples ?
Maybe the best solution is to save package…? And recall it for playing. How long is the loading of package ?
I’ve been reconsidering getting an SP-16 since the price came down (about £850 here in the UK) because I’m still (forever) looking for a single box that will allow me to play around with making music without using a computer at all. I have an M:S and it’s got it’s own pleasures but I’m still spending too much time preparing samples on my laptop which I really don’t enjoy. I’m happy to work with loops and one-shots (I have tons of free sample packs etc) but I don’t want to have to pre-prepare them because it just feels like work.
I’m a bit nervous about some of the reports here around dodgy encoders and whatnot because the units have sat in storage for years. That said, if there are not any significant firmware issues and the machine basically does “what it says on the tin” then it seems like a solid option. 16 tracks of sliced loops can take you a long way and if I can pitch one-shots to make basslines and melodies or even use single-cycles then that seems like it could be fun. I also don’t particularly care about loads of upgrades - I buy products based on what they can do at that point. If its abandonware but I buy from a retailer with a good 3-year warranty then that’s probably good enough.
Does anyone care to comment if this makes a decent self-contained groovebox? I’m not a power user, I just want to enjoy my music-making time and not have to use my computer. If I can “perform” a bit with scenes/patterns/mutes and get a bit of hands-on control then that’s great. I also note that this is one of few machines that also has p-locking, so that’s a definite plus.
Hello, You don’t have a lot of editing option for your sample (imported or recorded on the SP16) the best option as a one box for you is all the way to the MPC Live or MC707. You can easily fix the warmth with adding an AH on the master output. (it will act like the DSI Filter more or less)
You can’t normalize (but you can use the soft limiter to get level maximized on your recorded sample)
You can trim/crop by re-save
You can’t create fade-in fade-out, insert silence (but you can resample the behavior)
You can make a good use of the slices by p-locking different slice on the sequencer (also slices can be custom set you can slice different portion in terms of time slice 1 short sample, slice 2 a more longer section)
You can use single cycle waveform
You can loop the end of the sample to create a sustained instrument, and playing chromatically
If you need a larger zone (more than 2,3semitones) as you don’t have program like an MPC Live it will not sound really natural - time stretch can help but that’s where the MPC Live with auto-sampling VST really is unbeatable to me…
looking for a single box that will allow me to play around with making music without using a computer at all.
To me MPC Live, MC707 all the way without an hesitation
Price are the same area now
All around functionalities (Battery Power) : Winner MPC Live (included long audiofile if needed x8)
inbox Synthesis power (Pay attention Drums are just okay to me, clearly not ACB) : Winner MC707
Filter, Usable Effects (but limited) Quality of the Sound on the Master outputs + easy to use : Toraiz SP16
Performance Sampler and Experiment to transform wave file : Winner Octatrack (included long audiofile streamed from the card)
Searching/Browsing/Storage of Sample collection : Winner MPC Live (because of the SSD bay)
Also on SP16 because of the file requirement you will be forced to manage and prepare on the PC/Mac.
Each time you fall on sample who doesn’t meet the audio requirement you will have a annoying as hell popup to warn you.
Everything up than 64secondes file
Everything are not in 16bits or 24bits 44100Hz
(nowadays there’s a lot of sample collection in 24/48 and 24/96)
POPUP!
Recommandation : By the past I recommend Aurchitect Myriad to batch process huge amount of files in one pass in a matter of seconds or minutes (if you process Tbytes instead of Gbytes)
Myriad is dead it seems Krekeltronics will resurrected Myriad at some point but no news.
Best contenter in terms of price/options/speed :
https://www.monkey-tools.com/soundgrinder.html (MAC)
See Daren post for a PC similar software
The excellent and free wavosaur can also batch convert samples, windows only though.
https://www.wavosaur.com/
Hi @William_WiLD and @darenager thanks so much for the input.
I have watched a lot of MPC videos especially about the latest MPC One model and I don’t like the idea of being s heavily based on a touchscreen, especially when I can see that it isn’t even as responsive as an iPad. I can see, on demo/review videos, that the user is getting poor response from that screen. I also don’t want to step sequence with a touchscreen, I might as well use an iPad. I want to be able to “jam” a bit more and it seems like this is more oriented towards producing in a linear fashion.
Regarding the MC-707, it looks like it has a lot of synth power but the editing looks like menu-diving hell, and a small number of rotary pots (not even endless encoders) to do the hands-on control. I don’t want to do synthesis sound design with those menus, I’d rather slice and dice some loops for fun. I know that MC-707 can do this now but it looks a bit clunky compared with SP-16.
I have, of course, considered the Octatrack. I don’t think the legendary (supposed) complexity frightens me if I can just start slowly and build up to more complex features. I am slightly worried about the outdated effects but when I hear the YouTube videos it sounds pretty decent to me and it feels like the crossfaders, scenes and other features would be a lot of fun. I can live without Overbridge - I’ve seen so many things over the years that try to integrate hardware and software and it rarely works well. I’m not being unkind to Elektron, I just think it’s very tough to pull that off and the incompatibilities with a variety of hardware (computers), operating systems etc is a nightmare.
Regarding sample formats - I appreciate that those popups on the SP-16 must be annoying. If I can batch convert folders full of loops then that’s an easy win. Regarding the M:S, it’s more about the annoyance of having to make sample chains, not being able to tempo sync loops etc. I have found, after 2-3 months, that the sample locking is frustrating for me and I can’t quite get where I want with one-shot drums. I’m not enjoying trying to curate loads of one-shots into folders, or having to pre-prepare sample chains etc. If I can drop a few GBs of loops and samples straight into a box and just get going with slicing and dicing and step sequencing then that would be awesome.
I’m happy to be corrected if I’m way off the mark with any of this!
+1 on the DJS 1000, I’ve said it lots on here , it’s like modern old school mpc , incredibly easy to use and sounds lovely . Easy to get stuff in and out to a daw if needed . Great to live sample with and mangle stuff through resampling. Step sequencer and p locking is fun. Could not recommend high enough .
I recently bought a XDJ to play stems and other re edits all nicely sync’d with the DJS. You can loose hours just layering and resampling.
I can’t help thinking that people who criticise the OT fx fall into one of two camps:
Those that expect dedicated standalone fx quality.
Those that don’t really know how to make the best of them.
There are some perfectly usable fx in there, some very good and some just ok.
FWIW I never experienced this, I either do the sampling on the SP16 or import the correct format.
I think that it does, it has a little learning curve to do more in depth stuff but no worse than any other of this kind of box.
It pays to think about how you are going to use your samples slots, remember there are only 16 samples per scene, no sample locks or audio pool, so you will probably want to have some chains on some of the tracks.
Regarding the scenes they are best thought of as 16 sections of your song, so 16 patterns, each pattern a different section in your song, there is no mute automation in song mode BTW, so if you want a section where the kick isn’t playing you either have to create a pattern with no kick or do your mutes manually.
Might be worth watching all through the most recent Pioneer UK videos that @William_WiLD posted above to get a better idea of its capabilities, but based on your requirements I think you’d probably enjoy it.
Absolutely not we all know here Pros and Cons can drift from one user to another.
Your cons are perfectly understandable.
You might choose between the OT and the SP16 then if you use Midi Tracks to sequence. You have 16 parts on each then so… it’s really depend now, in my opinion how performance wise you like to use a device.
Performance wise OT win for sure.
Simplicity, HQ sounding + 8 outputs > SP16 win for sure
PS: OT + AH can be a killer sounding combo for sure
On the SP16 and how I use it a project is a full Live Performance, a scene = is one track (for a live for example I have 16 track eventually) and patterns are sections of the track or construction parts
Cheers
I asked this darenager,
but why not all that have both machines.
Hello darenager,
I ask you because I know you have both machine
I’m looking for a partner for the Toraiz SP-16 and the Octatrack looks for me as the most inspired machine.
I had one before sold it because I don’t like the sound compare to the Toraiz SP-16.
For instance i listen in a shop the Digitakt and I find the Digitakt sounds more direction Toraiz SP-16.
My question if you route the OT threw the Toraiz SP-16 you get the same vibe if you play Samples on the Toraiz SP-16?
Tank you very much for help and answer.
Stay healthy
All the best
Waldemar
Can confirm, this is an excellent machine. Ugly, to be sure, but the screen is fantastic, as is the UI. Direct USB insert, great MIDI mapping thanks to most recent update and, of course, separate outs.
I think if the SP-16 had a few things added it would be a serious alternative to the newer MPCs.
Mute states saved in arranger rows.
Individual track lengths and multiplier.
Conditional trig - A:B iteration and %.
Copy/paste individual or multiple steps.
Scenes per pattern, so you can have different insert fx settings and other sample parameters per pattern.
Some of the Squid sequencer stuff would be nice too.
@RhythmDroid as a former RS-7000 power user what do you think?
yeah… it’s such a shame that the software is lacking cause the hardware is super appealing! even like some of the workflow things, like parameter locks, more compared to the MPC. but the biggest deal-breaker for me is not being able to layer samples on pads.
Yeah, mute states saved to arranger rows would be fantastic…even the Squid stores mute states in the Pattern Sets. Yeah, the RS7000 mute and “scene” recall functions were SO useful!
Indiv. track lengths and multiplier is a big item on the wish list. The tricky thing is that Pioneer DJ keeps things very close-to-the-vest in terms of publicizing whether they’re working on a new firmware update or not. I can tell you that R&D are actively collecting and organizing improvement and new feature suggestions for both SP-16 and DJS-1000, but I cannot say whether there is a timeline in place yet for said firmware update.
Conditional trigs would be amazing, but it would have to be implemented in a way that was super “DJ friendly”…Pioneer customer base has “some” crossover with Elektron customer base…but there’s a section of the Venn diagram that would get a headache from “conditional trigs” hahaha.
COPY + PASTE STEPS…probably the number 1 priority for an update. This is a huge bottleneck.
Well, the Squid was designed to be a very straightforward trigger source for the SP-16…so I don’t think it’s likely that they will want to port too much over…the Squid is so so cool, I’ve finally replaced my RS7000 with Squid as my live sequencer–the number one feature I miss is patterns longer than 4 bars. There is the workaround by halving the track playback speed, but you cut total polyphony per step from 8 to 4, and swing will be implemented in a wonky way. I still need to try and hack this more.
I think if the SP-16/DJS-1000 platform wants to compete with MPCs, they’ve gotta focus first and foremost on:
Those are number one priority.
Many thanks @RhythmDroid for the reply and the insights, great to know that they are still thinking about updates.