So true, as artists ourselves we can sometimes lose sight of that, and invariably can come across as looking like a dick for pointing it out 
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Exactly. Who am I to create a bunch of drama that could disrupt everyone else’s good time? It’s also negative PR for my future bookings and work in the area.
“Hey, aren’t you that guy who started a bunch of crap that one night?”
Nope, I want to be the no-drama guy who everyone is happy to have around.
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Waw, dark vision. Do crap while smiling or die while trying doing quality. Cynic age we’re living in.
Had a friend who went to Full Sail. Learned the it’s and out’s of engineering, production, all that. Ended up getting a desk job in the payment department of a Hollywood big time record company, only because his sister knew somebody. Now he manages accounts, and prints out checks to be mailed to artist. Not sure if he’s paid off his loans yet. At least he really enjoys living in Hollywood.
It really does come down to massive dedication, perseverance, talent, and naturally luck. Luck encompasses a lot of thing, such as networking. However I think a lot of artist who didn’t have any connects worked really hard to get themselves out there, and also make connections. It’s odd because it’s never been easier to make music and get it out there, but at the same time that ease is diminished by the sheer amount of people doing the same thing.
Its important to remember that the idea of success is a fallacy and should vary from person to person. Success doesn’t have to mean having hit records and reaching global scale popularity. Simply starting a Bandcamp page or even releasing your tracks to the public is success in itself. Geez, even finishing a track is a success to be proud of. Best of luck to all those who pursue their dreams of “making it” in the music world. Never give up and keep pushing.
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I think a lot of the frustration expressed in this thread comes from the misconception that being good at your craft is enough to have fame and fortune. You need product-market fit and having enough people in the market willing to pay for your music will be hard no matter how good you are.
My most successful music project ever was creating 3 Synthwave songs in 2018. With around 20K plays between all platforms and around 45 USD of earnings which don’t even cover the Keystep Pro used to record them. This is peanuts compared to what real artists achieve but it’s enough “success” for me as a hobbyist. But even to achieve something as small as that I had to:
- Play something people actually wanna listen
- Invest time in promotion and networking
I can only imagine how much work outside music you need to find that product market fit if you wanna “make it big”.
EDIT: I can also add that you can compensate lack of “talent” with work up to a certain point.
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The point is that even to just survive making music for a living your efforts are not always enough.
Anyone that tries to make music for a living learns quickly that connections/marketing is more efficient than working hard on the product itself. It is not necessary that people want to listen to what you have to propose if you have the Universal Company or Warner budget to tell people what to listen/watch.
I don’t think that someone blaming the fact that relations are more important than the music you do is to be called an ignorant or utopist. You don’t need to be the best connected person in town as a baker to sell your bread. It helps to be friendly but if your bread is good you’ll have customers. Seems that in music, it is not enough.
I am not surprised reading threads asking if we should listen the music of that guy because he might be a bad guy. Somehow when your job is done on a stage, it comes to judging the person itself and not only the job done.
I think there were times when industry, amount of people and personal motivations of musicians were different.
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Every job I’ve ever had, most of the people getting promoted were knobheads. This is because the people in charge were knobheads.
If all the people getting a “break” in your local scene are knobheads, it’s because the people giving them the breaks are knobheads.
Most people are knobheads.
Some of you are probably knobheads.
I’m a knobhead.
I’m the knobhead people need, not the knobhead they want.
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Some people in charge also do promote knobheads so they won’t threat their position.
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Proper knobhead move, that.
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Once I was working in a team with knobheads, the boss was also a knobhead, all the other knobheads got promoted, I wasn’t a knobhead, all the other knobheads knobheadedness ended up costing them their jobs, including the boss, whose job I got.
Moral to the story, don’t be a knobhead.
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I’ve found over time that spending time/energy being cynical is definitely a valid and understandable response to how annoying the world of music can be on both a professional and creative level, but it’s also super important to know when that mindset just ends up becoming another obstacle that you’re generating for yourself. It’s healthy and cathartic to hate how things work sometimes, but at other times quite harmful for your ability to maintain stamina and keep going at it.
Sometimes very talented music people become successful. Sometimes very technically savvy music people become successful. Some of the most successful people are both. And, of course, some people do really well because of their connections or their preexisting wealth. There are iterations and combinations of all of these to different degrees all over the place (and countless knobheads in all categories) and at the end of the day, trying to boil such a complex ecosystem into one thing will only do so much for you.
This is especially true when you consider that “successful” can mean many different things. Do you want to be widely recognized and respected for your work? Do you just want stable, livable income? Do you want as much personal satisfaction as possible in how faithful your work is to your internal vision? Maybe some concoction of all of the above?
Once you’ve gotten the healthy frustration and anger out of the way, be decisive about what you want and what your expectations are, and redirect energy towards building a plan to get you where you want to go, using what you’ve learned so far and what you still need to learn.
Also, be involved in a community by giving and contributing. Think of yourself as part of a whole and maybe those connections that other people have can happen for you. There’s nothing that can stagnate a career more than getting too wrapped up in what happens to you or what’s in it for you as an individual, rather than recognizing and embracing how insignificant each one of us is alone, and that no career is a one-person show.
In my opinion, it’s either this or find something to pursue that you feel less frustrated by and more driven by and hopeful about. That’s how you go places.
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I predict your next track released will be properly named “Knobhead” . Fingers crossed. 
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Sort of thing a knobhead would do.
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There will always be fakes and Untalented Tony’s. It’s the same in any artistic field. However, if you are truly talented, as in you have the ability to write fantastic music, you will always make it. The people that don’t are just not good enough. Sorry but that’s pretty much it. It’s exactly the same with painters. And pls don’t even try to counter with Van Gogh blah blah.
There’s no such thing as “if you dont get lucky, you wont make it.” It’s complete and utter nonsense
Indeed. Music by Knobheads, made for Knobheads. Haha.
As some others have stated, it may boil down to what you yourself define as being a “successful” producer. Is it money, fame, recognition? I contributed to a compilation that the proceeds went towards feeding the hungry. I didn’t get paid, didn’t get much recognition, but it went towards a good cause. I’d say it’s one of my most successful producer moments thus far.
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I made £36.02 out of music in 2020.
Pretty happy about it if I’m honest.
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Talking about knobs, that gets you about a quarter of a knob on the Octatrack. Cha-ching!
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Music and Music Industry = not the same thing.
Good artists and Succesful artists = not the same thing.
NB. Im not using the word ‘producers’
If you want to be Successful in the Music Industry … you dont need to be a Good Artist. At all.
Far from it.
You just need to be a (willing) knobhead so the Music Industry can feed you to the consumer.
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Thinking of those getting paid $250,000 per live PA, I’m surprised nobody has mentioned ghost producing yet…
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Also success does not have to be money/fame, I consider myself a successful artist without fame or much money, because I still have the same goals in music as I always did, to do it for the love of doing it.
I never turned down a record deal, but I never wanted to play live in front of an audience, although I have done so in the past, I hated it.
When I was young and naive I just wanted to make records, I was very blind about the music industry in general, I got ripped off a few times by shit labels, boo hoo, it isn’t a sob story and I could have quit, but I just kept doing what I loved, this is the point to all this for me.
I guess that most people who “make it” have to have something that I don’t, I don’t believe it has much to do with actual music though, something that took me a good few years to figure out. I don’t think I have the (non musical related) work ethic or desire to be like that, and I’m fine with it.
I know there will be at least some people reading this who have experienced the pure joy of music when in that creative state, for me that is better than money and I feel lucky to have that.
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